UNGY-02 We like our people

[ungy]

Nobody said anything about maps, so we'll pick fractal (my favourite at least) again? Morganknight seems to be MIA.

Fractal is good here.

If anyone wants in we've got space for another.

 

[Melior Traiano]

Ooh, pick me, pick me!

 

[ungy]

Ooh, pick me, pick me!

OK- you're in Melior.

Roster:

Rusten
Olodune
Ungy
Pigswill
Mystyfly
Melior

I'm out of action for a few days starting later today so I put myself in the middle.

I'm going to roll up a start with Pericles later this aft unless anyone has a better idea.

 

[Olodune]

I'm going to roll up a start with Pericles later this aft unless anyone has a better idea.

Sounds good, Pericles is a strong choice alright. Just to be clear did we add a constraint "no cottages" or are we just planning to rely on production tiles "fairly heavily" in order to make up for the loss of food->production conversions? Of course that map will determine what "fairly heavily" means.

I'm mostly asking because heavy cottaging and Universal Suffrage would be an alternative way to deal with this variant.

 

[Rusten]

Pericles is great. I don't think we're "banning" cottages Olodune, just keeping them to a minimum. You're right about rush buy being an alternative, but if so that's more of a late game alternative. We won't survive on immortal with a heavy CE if we can't whip or draft, there's no instant production. At least it would be incredibly risky and getting a declaration of war against us could/would be game over. With workshops we'll be doing the DoW and not the AI.

I remember Mutineer running a rush buy variant with Mansa Musa, but they were allowed to use slavery until better civics and also allowed to draft for production. We can't do either of those, so I don't have as much faith in rush buy as in hammer tiles.

 

[Olodune]

mutineer's games were in Warlords when hammers were in much shorter supply* than in BtS. I'm nearly certain it would be doable with a CE type approach**, but Pericles is hardly the best leader for doing so. Besides I remember reading your hammer heavy diety game (with Freddy, IIRC) -- it wasn't the strongest game, but trying something similar on Immortal should be easier

However, I like the idea of relying less on cottages for this game -- it should be interesting. Getting a strong HE city early seems to be a good idea ...

*Additional Hammer Sources Include: Caste-Workshops, AP-religious buildings, More numerous Golden Ages, Levees, SP bonus, +Hammer events, etc.

**In my current Suleiman game (Immortal University IV), I've only whipped 3-5 times total, and not drafted anything. In a CE extra production before US can also come from troop upgrades.

 

[mystyfly]

Once we see the map, we can pick a position pretty much in the middle of our land and cottage this for burero but leave all the other cities farmed/workshopped.

A possibility to get workshops faster is Oracle -> MC sling. We could even try to get a GE early either for TGL or to bulb machinery. This would ensure our survival early game.

 

[Rusten]

I hadn't played much deity when I did that game with Fred though, much better at it now. I played pretty sloppy too, forgetting Oxford's for instance. Never got to the point where I could exploit my hammers for warfare, Hannibal was doing too well.
If you want to see a late game hammer economy then the deity game I did with Monty recently is a better example. I took over the entire world with my hammers at tech parity. The early- and mid-game was a FE though, so this game will be different, but a HE is perfectly valid and can compete late game despite my horsehockey experimental Freddy game.

Regarding your **:
- possibly it's doable, but keep in mind that you were semi-isolated with Willem that game, one of the most peaceful leaders (at least early on). On a fractal map (multiple neighbours) it's very risky. Would it work vs Shaka/Ragnar/Monty for instance?

Anyway, I'll admit that I'm superbiased, nothing to hide there, I hate cottages, I only make the ones I "have to".
They make me feel so vulnerable to a bullying AI. I prefer to be in control and dominate the game production-wise rather than tech-wise.

PS. We could do a follow-up SG with cottages instead and compare the two. That could be fun.
PS 2. Might want to kick me off the roster for that one though, I'd just sabotage the game.

 

[silverbullet]

I would like to join if you will accept me, but I have a question first (never played SG):
does everyone play parallel games, or do you all play the same game in turns.
If it is the second case I would understand if you don't want me to join as I might ruin your game

 

[Rusten]

SG means that we play only 1 game and play a set amount of turns before handing it over to the next player who continues. It doesn't matter all too much who plays the set though, because it's all about the pre-set discussion. You share ideas and come up with a plan.

You might get a spot if ungy's in a good mood

 

[Olodune]

@silverbullet

Many of the succession games in this forum are very well done. Because everyone plays consecutively they make for good reading material too. I'd suggest ungy-01 an instant classic

 

[ungy]

I remember Mutineer running a rush buy variant with Mansa Musa, but they were allowed to use slavery until better civics and also allowed to draft for production. We can't do either of those, so I don't have as much faith in rush buy as in hammer tiles.

I was in that game and it was a great one. Have to credit mutineer with the insight to bring it home--it looked like we were toast early.
Actually we were not allowed to draft, and only 2 cities were allowed to build mines/mills (and I don't think we allowed workshops--can't remember that).
We had a horrible start, and kind of abused our variant by avoiding COL for a while, but still we had a long period of no slavery and no US.

 

[ungy]

I would like to join if you will accept me, but I have a question first (never played SG):
does everyone play parallel games, or do you all play the same game in turns.

OK- we can squeeze one more in--I'm glad you're running the immortal university silverbullet. But now we're definately full.

General SG plan is that we discuss strategy before each turn set and then the active player executes the plan. If something unexpected comes up it's perfectly OK to stop and pause for comments--even if its after a single turn. Everyone (well maybe not Rusten) makes mistakes--but the key to a fun game for all and a successful team effort is for the active player not to make major policy shifts unilaterally. Reading the posts is important too.

Roster:

Rusten
Olodune
Ungy
Pigswill
Mystyfly
Melior
Silverbullet

 

[ungy]

OK-I roll one up:

 

[ungy]

oops no save:

 

[silverbullet]

OK- we can squeeze one more in--I'm glad you're running the immortal university silverbullet. But now we're definately full.

General SG plan is that we discuss strategy before each turn set and then the active player executes the plan. If something unexpected comes up it's perfectly OK to stop and pause for comments--even if its after a single turn. Everyone (well maybe not Rusten) makes mistakes--but the key to a fun game for all and a successful team effort is for the active player not to make major policy shifts unilaterally. Reading the posts is important too.

Thanks Ungy...
That sounds good, if I don't have to actually make all the decisions myself I am pretty confident I will not ruin the game and actually learn something.

I have no problem reading the posts and replying promptly I do it all the time during work....
I wish there was a text version of this forum so that it would look like I am actually working to those who pass by

 

[Rusten]

With good communication and effort a SG team is as strong as the top players in it. With poor communication it's lower than the weakest player, it just gets messy. Having a good atmosphere and solid discussion is the most important part, don't be afraid to voice your opinion.

edit: Nice, start is up. Is it OK if I play some extra turns? Just to get it moving, it's only moving the worker

 

[ungy]

I reposted the start as the fish weren't visible.

That's a whole lotta food. I'm actually running off now for a couple of days so I'll leave it to the team to get us started.

At first glance I'd be inclined to settle in place.

 

[Rusten]

Coastal fish is great.

My suggestion for the start is to grow to size 2 while getting the work boat (we'll get the 3 food tile on turn 3 thanks to creative) and then a worker at size 2 pasturing the cow. I'm pretty sure that's the most effective way, but I didn't calculate it, just hunch/experience.

AH -> mining -> bronze working?

 

[Olodune]

... it's only moving the worker

I'd have hoped for a workboat

{We start with Fishing/Hunting}

I think you should play some extra turns as well.

Edit: My hunch agrees with your hunch, Rusten. AH first, and a worker @2 seem to be the way to go. Later on we may want to steal some of that food, but for now Athens will be a great worker/settler pump.