UNGY6 The health nuts

^True, i'll whip CR, see if score falls down enough to do some extra whipping. We have ~140 pts on Sal which might be too much. I'll see about rushbuying RR, it's worth it in our current situation. The idea is to convert the land to cottages under emancipation if i understood correctly?

I'll play it this week, before the weekend that is.
 
Didn't make it since i also wanted to play some more in Duckweeds warmonger game and TMIT's IU.
Tomorrow i'll play and put a report up.
 
Play 14 disappointing turns. So i put up a lot of pics to get the scenery a bit more pleasant.

1705 AD
whip cr

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spread sushi, other exec goes on to brennus
TM 2100 gold
KK has build UN, vote for ourselves, didn't check if we have a chance but i think so.

Anyone notice we don't have copper and Brennus is the only one who can trade it to us?
So i'm switching OR now and i'm going to invade him with spies and missionaries in order to convert him to cristianity. Switch spy points to him this turn. If we're going to lose the internet we need a good spy base so i'm going to focus on jails.

1710 AD
Kub has 750 gold now, apparently he was building cr but not really close to finish.
Indu in, switch plastics of course. 7 turns, we're ok research wise.
Trade Indu for demo/communism + 250 gold.

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We don't need rifling right now but communism is
good for IA. switch Us/emancipation/OR.
rush RR

1715 AD
Switch back to rep
RR in, switch to transport for spies

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KK gets Eiffel
All forests, mines are up so i begin cottaging the workshops
We lose the un vote,

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could mean trouble since our civics are important to us right now.

1720 AD
Sal cancels a deal. Makes sense, he has sushi himself now, Probably the gold we'll get will be better then his resources.

1725 AD
Izzy drops to pleased

1730 AD
Kub completes hollywood.

1735 AD
-


1740 AD
Phew they ask emancipation, vote no but don't care really. Problems'll begin once they're asking for fr,env or fs. US wouldn't make me too happy either, it's a good thing we're cottaging now, SE is very vulnerable to UN requests. Plastics in

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1745 AD
Emancipation vote carries

1750 AD
-

1755 AD
comps in 3 turns, connecting railroads
KK can research laser now, i think he just got sats, well actually he's got composites too (!?) are we really playing immortal here? He's teching really really fast. We may need to steal from him.

1760 AD
Sal get's mining, that'll give us a bit of slack on the Net.

1765 AD,
The aligned civics, DR traded for 30 gold and a conversion to no state while keeping OR on gets Brennus to pleased.Annoyingly he still doesn't like us enough for the copper trade. The guide states that he's trading strategic resources when > cautious. So looked it up in XML and i'm puzzled now, i must have misunderstood something? We have been trading fur with him for ages.
<StrategicBonusRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_CAUTIOUS</StrategicBonusRefuseAttitudeThreshold>
<HappinessBonusRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_ANNOYED</HappinessBonusRefuseAttitudeThreshold>
<HealthBonusRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_FURIOUS</HealthBonusRefuseAttitudeThreshold>

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It isn't because of the war with Izzy i think. Maybe it has to with different ranking, we're top half he's bottom. This gives a -2 demiter on relations, he's cautious at +5, pleased at +6 right now. But hey we took that hit already.

Strictly we didn't lose too much by my attempt, the missionaries can goto kub to spread in some cities. We may convert him if needed, it helps with espionage even if we don't convert him.Spies can also goto kub but not right away since they can cause trouble, we need to have points against him first.The spy points on Brennus are unfortunately lost, too bad.

1770 AD
Computers researched,

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Internet costs ages (32 turns) to build unfortunately.
Vote comes up for FR, don't like that but no reason to defy now. I hope some others'll defy this or maybe the vote just doesn't carry with Izz Brennus and us.

It'll be a tough ending from here. Kub's researching fast. He's self researched Plastics (well had begun on this already) Sats,composites. He also acquired flight maybe in trade.Demographics tell it all.

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And a look at his lands give an idea why this screen looks like this

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Even if we do get the net it's doubtful if it's of any use because we'll get it so late. We can research eco from here which seems clearly best. At least we can build (rushbuy) forges then. Subsequently we could disconnect coal/oil and get factories there'll be no way back though. Rushbuying we could shave some turns of the internet build.

But unless we find a solution for the copper dilemma i think we can forget about the net. Our cottage econ is coming online fast now. We can have the slider at 90% now at a small loss. If we can get a good spybase up we should be able to keep up with Kublai. Remains the problem how to build the parts. When we do get to that part though we can transform the land, disconnect coal/oil, switch to caste for reasonable production. And of course with help of the redentor we can play all kinds of spy tricks on kublai if all the possible civic switches are still viable. My actions with Brennus may give us a chance in the next UN leadership vote, don't how he'll choose now he's pleased with us both.

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Attachments

I would not worry about the victory of this game. It's no bad that KK got UN. The selection would then be him and us. Time for us to gear toward one or two conquering. Research Flight and build Fighters/Bombers/Marines/Tanks. All we need is more populations from Brennus and Elizabeth to a diplomatic win.
 
Diplo, don't we have to get 2 ais to friendly at least then? I don't see the conquering bit too clearly too, without any modifier our production is just dismal. Well maybe we could conquer Brennus who's behind, Liz is weak but she has some modern techs. It'll certainly take time though maybe not the conquering but producing the units and the ships (no drydock) until after ecology. Maybe rushbuy the units, too bad we haven't got the kremlin but we can raise a lot of gold. Personally i see more in spying game. Any idea about the copper btw? That leaves me puzzled.
 
Thx, that's good news, so all the trouble i took was not in vain, couldn't believe it really that he wouldn't trade it. Did you play one or a few turns further? We have 50% buro modifier in Lisbon so our output goes from 150% to 250%. It costs us 31 turns to build now, will be reduced to 19 turns.
We could buy a forge after eco shaving 2 further turns off (but costing us one for buying).
Unfortunately we can't go caste atm, we have to be elected to reverse that resolution. 19 turns could be good enough if Kub remains on the modern wartechs line for a while. He can research advanced flight now , he may like that tech. Izzy can research comps too now.
 
I believe you just adopted FR at that turn, so in fact Brennus is till cautious at us then.

2 friendly AI? My previous experiences (3.13 patch) tell me pleased is enough as long as they have more plus modifier on you.

I don't see much problems of warring. The major lost I can expected is fighters when against Ilizabeth. The major problem of warring is that Brennus and Elizabeth might vassal to KK. However, the war will be fast, and if the 10g beg is still available now.
 
You need +8 relations to have AIs vote for you to win. It has nothing to do with pleased/friendly.
btw interesting game so far, kublai is proving once again creative is a strong trait for AIs
While I agree that AIs (and human players :D) with creative have an edge over the others I don't think this is a good game to show it. KK has had a huge strip of land to himself--anyone would shine there. The Map threw 2 civlizations on our little island while KK could roam freely on the big continent.
 
Lurker's comment:
Took a look at the save about the copper: seems Brennus is willing to trade it after all.
hmm I don't show him willing to trade it:(
I confess I hadn't noticed we didn't have copper.
Something else we don't have--aluminum. We're around 50% to pop a GS which can found corp tho.

I'm not at all sure how we bring this one home.

I don't think we can win a space race--even if we can get copper 19 turns for internet then probably 15 or so for apollo then slow parts. Just seems too long with the pace KK looks like he's on. Plus we don't have the copper yet.

That leaves diplo as the only realistic chance. If I remember correctly we need +8 relations+better than opponent to get the vote.

We'll need to vassal 2AI and get Iz back to friendly I think. At least we have the CR--
maybe draft?
 
i have version 3.17 installed, with BUG 3.6 and BTS better ai mods: could the mods make a difference?
In case you want it, i uploaded the 1770 save, after making the deal with brennus: copper and 2 gpt for oil (he would also take fish + hit singles for copper +2 gpt but oil is useless to him anyway so went with that)

Regarding KK: seems he captured 3 barb cities and founded sanchu all the way down south, Brennus failed to expand in his direction, i suppose founding hindu delayed his expansion?
 

Attachments

-I don't think i switched fr this turn, we might be forced into it next turn since a vote for it came up this turn. As you can see in the screenshots Brennus is pleased with us and he doesn't trade. I have all emperor peter's mods installed except better ai so this might make the difference. !? but it really shouldn't. No aluminium either, well maybe we can found that corp or up the gpp with pacificm so we get another chance.

-I'm obviously not an expert on diplo wins :), i stumble on one sometimes but tend not to play for it, good to know that +8 relations is enough. In that case we might be able to manipulate some strings. But do we need to vassalaize 2 ais?Bren's + 6 with us now, will be difficult to get him to 8 without converting him to cristianity. But we can. Maybe we can pull some tricks on Liz too.

As for the victory condition we'll know better after we know about internet. I think it's ridiculous that we can't trade for copper while the guide (xml) says we can, i have no problems loading emperor's save if that's possible (but it probably isn't). With enough spy points you can delay kub's launch for quite a while.

But diplo seems more likely, Izz back to friendly can't be too hard with theo, i did incur at least one negative modifier with her though. I'm interested to see how an army build up looks here, i'm glad i don't have to do that :p. At least we don't have to conquer all their land, Liz probably capitulates after we take one city but have to check in xml.
 
The mods/fix make a difference, but the reason we can't trade for the copper is a bug in the new patch so I'm fine with using Emperor_Peter's save. I would have fixed it/updated myself, but I can't due to MP games--it would have to be loaded as a mod and be generally troublesome.
 
The bug I'm thinking about, if it still exists, is for all leaders. I don't know if Brennus would trade copper at pleased usually (can only assume since he will for E. Peter), but there's an issue with attitude and resource trading. I think the problem is that the attitude isn't 'checked' for resource trade despite it being intended. Everyone is at the default spot (cautious). As a result you can't trade for resources that require you to be pleased/friendly with the civ in question. Note that it goes the other way as well. If you're at annoyed with someone and their resources require cautious you can still trade for it due to an error since the new patch.
 
I see, that's rather a severe bug. I listed the xml, it's clear copper trade should be on at pleased as is indeed confirmed by emperor Peter's save. Well see if we can load it despite not having better ai.
 
Emperor Peter's save loads fine. Mind you he has already made the trade for copper, that had me puzzled for a sec. Brennus has oil now without combustion. Thx again emperor :goodjob:. As expected internet in 19 turns once you mm the build there.
 
-I don't think i switched fr this turn, we might be forced into it next turn since a vote for it came up this turn. As you can see in the screenshots Brennus is pleased with us and he doesn't trade. I have all emperor peter's mods installed except better ai so this might make the difference. !? but it really shouldn't. No aluminium either, well maybe we can found that corp or up the gpp with pacificm so we get another chance.

From the screenshot, we are adopting FR that turn. I haven't check the save yet.
 
I'm interested to see how an army build up looks here, i'm glad i don't have to do that :p. At least we don't have to conquer all their land, Liz probably capitulates after we take one city but have to check in xml.

I guess I might be on duty of the war or the war preparation.
Here's my list of units needed in the beginning of the war:

4~5 Battleships
15+ Fighters on Carriers
16 Bombers
20 Marines on 5 transporters
20 Tanks preloaded near Brennus or Liz's border

Unfortunately we can not adopt slavery (the major reason I research MM 1st. Also I always defy this resolution). Still I think this can be done in 20~30 turns with rush buy.

I don't know whether taking vassals will affect the altitude of Izzy & Saladin to us. I think even completely wipe them out does not take more than a couple turns.
 
From the screenshot, we are adopting FR that turn. I haven't check the save yet.
You're right, i thought no copper trade might as well switch and continued to write the story with screenshots i took. But i got really puzzled by the copper situation and reloaded the save to show what was happening .
 
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