UNGY6 The health nuts

[ungy]

Nicely done Duckweed! You got us caught up quickly.

I should have mentioned that we were almost to the circumnav--glad you got it even with the map trades

I'm away for 9 days and not sure about internet so carry on without me but things look well in hand now.

Definately no religion --take FR when we can take FM --let's avoid enemies and rebuild our lands.

 

[Dirk1302]

Well done Duckweed looks good. Rusten up then me?

 

[Duckweed]

Looks really good from reading the report! Ruin event and getting to trade for PP--wow!!
Doesn't hurt to get Isabella to pleased either!

About scientific method:

Liz, KK and Sal all gave economics+gunpowder for SM and 110 gold so none of them have started researching it.

Brennus has started on SM.

Isabella is in wfyabta so I dunno.

Revolting to FM+FR makes sense (trading for economics somehow).

If we get chemistry in trade within few turns I'd go for biology instead. Our cities are small, so it could help us grow them.

FR is the best option atm. However, I worry that we will reach the wfyabta pretty soon after we trade SM around. Therefore, for the long turn consideration, convert to one religion to get a friendly partner make sense. I don't know whether KK will tend to adopt free religion. If KK will, then Isa is the best choice. Of course at the same time we make some enemies. However they are useless for trade then. So here is another reason I prefer domination based winning route, you don't need to please almost everyone to survive.

Still I prefer communism next, the free GSpy can be used to start our 1st golden age and do the civic change and conversion freely. Once again, Kre is one of the wonder I would chase for despite that I am not even near a wonderwhore. Biology is surely good for city grow, however, not so urgent.

 

[Rusten]

I wouldn't worry too much about wfyabta. We've just met Kublai (which is at 10 techs) while Liz is at 15 and Saladin 10.

Kublai has a different religion modifier of 0, so if we are to adopt a religion I'd go for confucianism (present in most cities as well). Isabella is a much safer bet for friendly whereas Kublai might switch around I suppose. We'll still be friends with Kublai Khan if we adopt confu--but if we adopt buddhism Isabella will surely hate us. Relations with Saladin will suffer, but I agree that it's not a major problem--Isabella and KK are the big ones.

 

[Duckweed]

In my play set, I traded Music, Guild, Edu, Banking, PP, Lib, so that's 6 already. If I am correct, those techs add up to everyone's wfyabta count since they already met. That's why I said we will hit wfyabta for almost everyone after we trade SM around.

Right, I also incline to make friend with Isa.

 

[Rusten]

Ok, I'm fine either way--the rest of the team can vote on it. The cap is higher than that base number on immortal but 6 techs already is indeed a fair bit. I can't remember how much higher it is as I only recently got back into SP after a long, long break (disregarding these SGs).

And I've got it.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

I still think we should run theo and no religion, but if we're to pick, I'd pick izzy too

also, kre imho > biology this time. plus, free gp is free gp

 

[Rusten]

Playing tomorrow--expect the report within 24 hours.

 

[Rusten]

Sorry, something came up (easter and all). Will play tomorrow for sure--probably in the morning/mid day.

 

[Rusten]

Started playing, but I feel that I have to pause and have you reconsider before I continue. If you're quick with the input I can finish my set later tonight.

I've played 2 turns and Isabella has completed Scientific Method. The AI, and especially Isabella IME, is *very* likely to go for communism right away so I'm not convinced it's our best bet.

1: The chance of us getting there first isn't all that great, so don't expect the free GP.
2: We don't have a good production city (and we can't chop) so how are we suppose to get the Kremlin?
3: Biology will grant us the NP (great in Moscow!).

Do you still want to go for Communism? If so, please tell me why--I'm willing to reconsider, I just don't see it working out.

I've held off on trading SM to KK for nationalism as we don't really need that tech right now and he is the biggest techer (seemingly), but I was forced to make the other trades before it was too late.

Also, adopting SP would mean no sushi.

 

[Duckweed]

That makes thing complicated, I would hold on ~4 turns to see whether she goes for Communism. Anyway you need more cash for 100% research. Otherwise I agree on Biology.

 

[Rusten]

How am I suppose to know whether she goes for Communism in ~4 turns? I believe we can run 100% science at least next turn (if we produce some wealth), but chances are it's still too slow.

We have to decide now. IMO biology is more promising. I'd do the FR+FM civic change and start on chemistry with 0%.

 

[Duckweed]

I remember we can get communism in 8 turns and I would guess Isabella's research rate would be double as us (a glance for the GNP may give you better estimation, Isabella should be the #1 or nearby). Moreover, AIs usually research their last tech to the marginal to have overflow on the next tech, so 4 turns = 5 turns and that almost guarantees her finishing of Communism if she does go for it.

 

[Rusten]

But what if she finishes something else in 3-4 turns? That just puts us in the situation we're at now--she could go for communism again. There's also the issue of Saladin/Liz finishing it before us if we wait. I'd either go for it now or drop it.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Izzy has double our 'braking-even' research, but I don't think she has double of our 100% slider (which is what gave communism at 8 IIRC).

 

[Duckweed]

She would be very possibly either go for Com or Phy in this situation. She would take ~3 more turns for Phy and after that if she see that we are already in the middle of Com (she will see it due to the EP difference). she would not chase for Com at that time. Even she go for that, we will beat her at that time.

Anyway, Biology is still very good choice. If you really think 4 turns of delay to Biology is important, I don't want to insist.

 

[Dirk1302]

We won't get the Kremlin so the discussion is imo only about the free gp. It's hard to say if Izz'll go physics or communism. If i understood correctly not only Izz has SM now but also some others with whom you had to trade now? In that case we might lose the gp race anyway depending on how fast these ais complete their current research.

Without Kremlin communism isn't that important right away. Physics is on route to eco but chances for gp are even lower on this route. Bio seems best , it's on the eco route and our empire will profit immediately. It'll have trading value since the others'll probably go either communism or physics.

 

[Duckweed]

We won't get the Kremlin so the discussion is imo only about the free gp. It's hard to say if Izz'll go physics or communism. If i understood correctly not only Izz has SM now but also some others with whom you had to trade now? In that case we might lose the gp race anyway depending on how fast these ais complete their current research.

I agree that without Kre, Com is not that important. However, the chance we can get Kre is still high if we win the race to Com. Moscow is not bad for production with lumber mills and the overflow trick.

>90% of chance AIs will go for either Com or Phy in current situation from my plays. I checked the last save, and indeed that the top AIs' GNP is double as our. 4 turns of wait is my conservative estimation, I would only wait 3 turns (4 turns for Isa to research considering the overflow) if I play it. AIs tend to enhance the science slide as high as possible when they chase for a bonus tech. Therefore, if Isa goes for Phy first, she will almost run out of her savings in the race and won't be that fast if she go for Com next. Actually, again, >90% of chance she won't do that. This also applies to the starting point, there is more chance Isa will go for Phy since we have already put some beakers on Com for 2 turns, even they are little.

 

[Rusten]

(10) turns played at last.

1310 AD:
I set Guimarães to workers. It won't grow much without biology anyway and has a very suitable hammer count. 12 hammers when working the town gives +3 from expansive bonus and +3 from the forge.

1330 AD:
We suffer a diplo hit with Saladin.

As mentioned Izzy gets SM this turn so I trade SM to Saladin and Liz.
We get economics+gunpowder from Saladin and RP from Liz--there were some small lump sums of gold involved.

Moscow finishes the university and gets started on the Moai Statues. In hindsight maybe the NE would've been better together with the NP, but on the other hand MS will get the NP up much quicker for faster research towards ecology. NE+NP would be 550 hammers (would take forever) so I went for quicker gain.

I get ready to do the fm+fr civic swap but I notice that it's at 2 turns!
I decide to skip it altogether and wait for a GP to start a golden age. There are still civs in mercantilism, so FM isn't that urgent. I hire a prophet in the capital to shorten the wait--it will pop 1450 AD. When it's popped I suggest major changes (caste, fm, theocracy, christianity).

Isabella has switched to christianity and at the end of the set Kublai went for FR, so adopting a religion seems very good now. As Izzy is now the founder of her religion there's more friction in the world of politics and we'll get extra +.

While waiting (hoping) that chemistry would be allowed for trade I went back in the tree and finished monotheism+theocracy (theology).

We're the 2nd largest civ.

1410 AD:

Saladin and Liz will part with chemistry--yay!

I give Saladin RP and 115 gold for chemistry.

Observant eyes will notice that noone has communism yet.
We would've gotten it, but if I was placed in the same situation (with the same information) I'd do the same thing. The biology path has worked out great anyway as we got to trade chemistry--we've plenty of gold to rush biology.

St. Petersburg finished a settler this turn. We can choose between settling 1 or 2 cities. If we opt for 1, I think the tike I'm marking below is the best, but we could squeeze in 2 as well.

KK adopted FR+emancipation+US 1400 AD which gives him 2 turns of anarchy I believe.

Now that KK is out of HR I think we should stop supplying him with dye. He's creative so I bet all of his cities have theatres for +2 happy.

 

[Duckweed]

How many turns does it took Isa to finish Phy?

 

[Rusten]

She had SM 1330 AD and the GS popped 1370 AD.