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Unique Ability Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by cpm4001, Sep 29, 2013.

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  1. FilthyRobot

    FilthyRobot Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2013
    Messages:
    76
    Arabia - Ships of the Desert - 22
    Assyria - Treasures of Nineveh - 22
    Austria - Diplomatic Marriage - 17
    Babylon - Ingenuity - 25
    Brazil - Carnival - 21
    Byzantium - Patriarchate of Constantinople - 19
    Carthage - Phoenician Heritage - 21
    China - Art of War - 21
    Denmark - Viking Fury - 12
    Egypt - Monument Builders - 18
    England - Sun Never Sets - 21
    Ethiopia - Spirit of Adwa - 4
    France - City of Light - 10
    Germany - Furor Teutonicus - 11
    Greece - Hellenic League - 22
    India - Population Growth - (8+1) 9 Any city greater than 6 actually has a lower happiness cost than non-indian cities. This lets you go insanely tall or have huge pop spread across a medium-wide empire. It's insane science and is amazing.
    Indonesia - Spice Islanders - 18
    Japan- Bushido - 7
    Korea - Scholars of the Jade Hall - 24
    Morocco - Gateway to Africa - 14
    Persia - Achaemenid Legacy - 21
    Poland - Solidarity - 26
    Polynesia - Wayfinding - 21
    Portugal - Mare Clausum - 22
    Rome - The Glory of Rome - 17
    Russia - Siberian Riches - 20
    Siam - Father Governs Children - 22
    Songhai - River Warlord - 20
    Spain - Seven Cities of Gold - 16
    Sweden - Nobel Prize - 19
    The Aztecs - Sacrificial Captives - 23
    The Celts - Druidic Lore - (11-3) 8 - City placement is too important to be worrying about unimproved forests. What a short-term, garbage bonus that isn't game changing at all.
    The Huns - Scourge of God - 9
    The Inca - Great Andean Road - 24
    The Iroquois - The Great Warpath - 18
    The Maya - The Long Count - 21
    The Netherlands - Dutch East India Company - 16
    The Ottomans - Barbary Corsairs - 17
    The Shoshone - Great Expanse - 22
    The Zulus - Iklwa - 21
    Venice - Serenissima - 12
     
  2. VicRatlhead5199

    VicRatlhead5199 King

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    Location:
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    We voting on UAs or the whole civ in general? That has absolutely nothing to do with the UA
     
  3. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,408
    Location:
    Maryland
    I think with Venice you have to vote on the Merchant of Venice too, because the UA is completely based around having these guys. At the very least you need to recognize the Merchant of Venice after optics, because that's part of the UA and not the UP (the UA might even include the merchant of Venice in it too, I forget). I've generally in these threads giving points to units and abilities that synnergize well with other parts of the civ, because 90% of the time you're using the unit inside the civ. That's why I was so disappointed in the Nau getting eliminated so early in the UU thread! The Nau is so good when combined with Portugal that I think it deserved better, even if wouldn't be that great for a random civ.
     
  4. VicRatlhead5199

    VicRatlhead5199 King

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    I see well I'm having trouble seeing what exactly we're supposed to base our votes on. Is it really based on what UAs give the greatest advantage or just based on personal opinion formed from our experiences?

    India's UA, for example, is similar to Venice's in that it's somewhat weak early on but becomes one of the most powerful in the game later on. There's a little known mechanic built in for India where 2/3 of excess local happiness gets added back in to your global happiness. That makes it so with the right local happiness buildings and policies the negative side of Ghandi's UA can flip around and in essence he can have cities that produce less per city unhappiness than a normal civ. Yet no one's been called out or chastised for downvoting it. I assume people are downvoting it because it's kind of weak early on and can be tough to get going, possibly bad experiences with the civ because they surely aren't voting it down because it's weak. Now, does that sound familiar when thinking of some of my reasoning for voting Serenissima down?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6kW8VzeW-U Watch around 3:30 to 7:15 for an in depth explanation of how India's UA can be pretty amazing.

    Then when talking about synergy let's look at another UA that's doing poorly, Scourge of God. It's the opposite of Venice and India and is really strong early but peters off as the game progresses. The extra production, free tech and speedy city razing give the Huns the ability to crank out a large army, and use it to clear a continent before their UUs lose relevance. It's clearly the perfect match for their UUs yet it's doing awful because over the course of the game it's impact gets less and less.

    Nobody's been called out for voting them down, why chastise me because I don't like Serenissima?
     
  5. jlim201

    jlim201 King

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    825
    Location:
    Somewhere North of the South Pole
    Arabia - Ships of the Desert - 22
    Assyria - Treasures of Nineveh - 22
    Austria - Diplomatic Marriage - 17
    Babylon - Ingenuity - 25
    Brazil - Carnival - 21
    Byzantium - Patriarchate of Constantinople - 19
    Carthage - Phoenician Heritage - 21
    China - Art of War - 21
    Denmark - Viking Fury - 12
    Egypt - Monument Builders - 18
    England - Sun Never Sets - 21
    Ethiopia - Spirit of Adwa - 4
    France - City of Light - 10
    Germany - Furor Teutonicus - 8- This is a chance UA, and the -25% cost is completely outdone by the Zulu UA.
    Greece - Hellenic League - 22
    India - Population Growth -9
    Indonesia - Spice Islanders - 18
    Japan- Bushido - 7
    Korea - Scholars of the Jade Hall - 24
    Morocco - Gateway to Africa - 14
    Persia - Achaemenid Legacy - 21
    Poland - Solidarity - 26
    Polynesia - Wayfinding - 22- In BNW, this is amazing for better trade ship partners, and world congress founding.
    Portugal - Mare Clausum - 22
    Rome - The Glory of Rome - 17
    Russia - Siberian Riches - 20
    Siam - Father Governs Children - 22
    Songhai - River Warlord - 20
    Spain - Seven Cities of Gold - 16
    Sweden - Nobel Prize - 19
    The Aztecs - Sacrificial Captives - 23
    The Celts - Druidic Lore - 8 -
    The Huns - Scourge of God - 9
    The Inca - Great Andean Road - 24
    The Iroquois - The Great Warpath - 18
    The Maya - The Long Count - 21
    The Netherlands - Dutch East India Company - 16
    The Ottomans - Barbary Corsairs - 17
    The Shoshone - Great Expanse - 22
    The Zulus - Iklwa - 21
    Venice - Serenissima - 12
     
  6. VicRatlhead5199

    VicRatlhead5199 King

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Messages:
    966
    Location:
    Michigan
    Arabia - Ships of the Desert - 22
    Assyria - Treasures of Nineveh - 22
    Austria - Diplomatic Marriage - 17
    Babylon - Ingenuity - 25
    Brazil - Carnival - 21
    Byzantium - Patriarchate of Constantinople - 19
    Carthage - Phoenician Heritage - 21
    China - Art of War - 21
    Denmark - Viking Fury - 12
    Egypt - Monument Builders - 18
    England - Sun Never Sets - 21
    Ethiopia - Spirit of Adwa - 4
    France - City of Light - 10
    Germany - Furor Teutonicus - 9- The unit maintenance here applies to all land units which actually makes it's economic impact more effective than the Zulu's which applies to melee only. Especially when considering that the bulk of most CiV armies are going to be ranged units. The free units from barb camps allows you to acquire a large army with just a couple warriors and archers. Perfect for rushing out the Temple of Zeus then squashing your neighbor early on. By the end of the game it can be one of the best economic UAs in the game when you consider that unit maintenance is usually your second largest expense.
    Greece - Hellenic League - 22
    India - Population Growth -9
    Indonesia - Spice Islanders - 18
    Japan- Bushido - 7
    Korea - Scholars of the Jade Hall - 24
    Morocco - Gateway to Africa - 11 A very small amount of extra culture and gold. The AI don't seem to take it into account when setting up trade routes. Just unimpressive overall.
    Persia - Achaemenid Legacy - 21
    Poland - Solidarity - 26
    Polynesia - Wayfinding - 22
    Portugal - Mare Clausum - 22
    Rome - The Glory of Rome - 17
    Russia - Siberian Riches - 20
    Siam - Father Governs Children - 22
    Songhai - River Warlord - 20
    Spain - Seven Cities of Gold - 16
    Sweden - Nobel Prize - 19
    The Aztecs - Sacrificial Captives - 23
    The Celts - Druidic Lore - 8 -
    The Huns - Scourge of God - 9
    The Inca - Great Andean Road - 24
    The Iroquois - The Great Warpath - 18
    The Maya - The Long Count - 21
    The Netherlands - Dutch East India Company - 16
    The Ottomans - Barbary Corsairs - 17
    The Shoshone - Great Expanse - 22
    The Zulus - Iklwa - 21
    Venice - Serenissima - 12
     
  7. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

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    Messages:
    1,408
    Location:
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    In the end it's a matter of opinion overall. I just happen to love Venice's UA. I did upvote India's UA once because I agree with you that it's underrated, especailly in a tall buffed BNW, and I was wondering about that. The Hunnic UUs have been eliminated already in the UU thread, and the UA is regarded as terrible, but all in all, it's not a terrible civ. This isn't going to be a scientific thread, so vote on what you think is right.

    Feel free to vote Venice down if you want, your opinion is just as valid as mine. Just know that I'm going to keep voting it up until it's eliminated, because I think it's amazing!
     
  8. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,408
    Location:
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    Arabia - Ships of the Desert - 22
    Assyria - Treasures of Nineveh - 22
    Austria - Diplomatic Marriage - 17
    Babylon - Ingenuity - 25
    Brazil - Carnival - 21
    Byzantium - Patriarchate of Constantinople - 19
    Carthage - Phoenician Heritage - 21
    China - Art of War - 21
    Denmark - Viking Fury - 12
    Egypt - Monument Builders - 18
    England - Sun Never Sets - 21
    Ethiopia - Spirit of Adwa - 4
    France - City of Light - 10
    Germany - Furor Teutonicus - 9 You also convinced me about Germany. I'll leave this alone for now. I generally don't go for domination, so I'm not as good at ranking warmonger civs.
    Greece - Hellenic League - 22
    India - Population Growth -9
    Indonesia - Spice Islanders - 18
    Japan- Bushido - 7
    Korea - Scholars of the Jade Hall - 24
    Morocco - Gateway to Africa - 8 All right, I'll accept a temporary truce about Venice, Vic, because I do agree with you about Morocco. These guys just don't have the same explosive renaissance power as Portugal or Venice, and early game they aren't exactly a powerhouse either. If you can get a great desert hill/Kabash capital they can be amazing, but that isn't from the UA, and barring that, they have a fairly limited scope of power. Maybe in multiplayer where everyone is smart about their trade routes this UA could be good...
    Persia - Achaemenid Legacy - 21
    Poland - Solidarity - 26
    Polynesia - Wayfinding - 22
    Portugal - Mare Clausum - 23 The extra money from Portugal trade routes synnergizes with commerce and their UA, allowing you to buy anything you want in your cities. This is a far better version of Morocco.
    Rome - The Glory of Rome - 17
    Russia - Siberian Riches - 20
    Siam - Father Governs Children - 22
    Songhai - River Warlord - 20
    Spain - Seven Cities of Gold - 16
    Sweden - Nobel Prize - 19
    The Aztecs - Sacrificial Captives - 23
    The Celts - Druidic Lore - 8 -
    The Huns - Scourge of God - 9
    The Inca - Great Andean Road - 24
    The Iroquois - The Great Warpath - 18
    The Maya - The Long Count - 21
    The Netherlands - Dutch East India Company - 16
    The Ottomans - Barbary Corsairs - 17
    The Shoshone - Great Expanse - 22
    The Zulus - Iklwa - 21
    Venice - Serenissima - 12
     
  9. Kintara

    Kintara Warlord

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    Location:
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    I've tried India recently and have tested their happiness potential. If they get global happiness from local happiness, I didn't see it. The only hidden thing they "get" is a cap on local happiness that's about 1/3 lower than normal.

    Edit: For example, a pop 30 city does sort of farm excess happiness. You'll get about 2 points excess local happiness over unhappiness (20-15 unhappiness - 3 from UA city penalty). So that's nice, but a more apt way to think about the bonus, in my opinion, is that it's more of an efficiency bonus. You only need to get to 18 local happiness to match the unhappiness penalties of the city (as opposed to 30 in a normal pop 30 city). If you haven't been blown away by the raw happiness potential of India, though, it might be because you have more local happiness potential than your cap allows.
     
  10. Matthew.

    Matthew. Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
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    2,179
    Oh wow... some of these votes. Honest question: Are some of you voting just based on what the description of the UA says, or from actual experience playing the Civ? Some of these choices, I don't understand the logic.
     
  11. greygamer

    greygamer Feudal Lord

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
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    Absolutely spot on, which is why I like what they changed in the fall patch for Germany. Just like the Mongols go looking for horses the Germans should go looking for Iron. those Barbarian recruits are the core of a solid army. A few solid melee units can make sieges finish a turn earlier and drive back enemy ranged units. I found I had little use for the Landsknecht when playing as the Iron Chancellor
     
  12. Teagen

    Teagen Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Messages:
    137
    Arabia - Ships of the Desert - 22
    Assyria - Treasures of Nineveh - 22
    Austria - Diplomatic Marriage - 17
    Babylon - Ingenuity - 25
    Brazil - Carnival - 21
    Byzantium - Patriarchate of Constantinople - 19
    Carthage - Phoenician Heritage - 21
    China - Art of War - 21
    Denmark - Viking Fury - 12
    Egypt - Monument Builders - 18
    England - Sun Never Sets - 18
    Ethiopia - Spirit of Adwa - 4
    France - City of Light - 10
    Germany - Furor Teutonicus - 10
    Greece - Hellenic League - 22
    India - Population Growth -9
    Indonesia - Spice Islanders - 18
    Japan- Bushido - 7
    Korea - Scholars of the Jade Hall - 24
    Morocco - Gateway to Africa - 8
    Persia - Achaemenid Legacy - 21
    Poland - Solidarity - 26
    Polynesia - Wayfinding - 22
    Portugal - Mare Clausum - 23
    [/COLOR]Rome - The Glory of Rome - 17
    Russia - Siberian Riches - 20
    Siam - Father Governs Children - 22
    Songhai - River Warlord - 20
    Spain - Seven Cities of Gold - 16
    Sweden - Nobel Prize - 19
    The Aztecs - Sacrificial Captives - 23
    The Celts - Druidic Lore - 8 -
    The Huns - Scourge of God - 9
    The Inca - Great Andean Road - 24
    The Iroquois - The Great Warpath - 18
    The Maya - The Long Count - 21
    The Netherlands - Dutch East India Company - 16
    The Ottomans - Barbary Corsairs - 17
    The Shoshone - Great Expanse - 22
    The Zulus - Iklwa - 21
    Venice - Serenissima - 12
     
  13. Lorf Yimzo

    Lorf Yimzo Atheist

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    117
    Location:
    Empire of Colorado
    Arabia - Ships of the Desert - 22
    Assyria - Treasures of Nineveh - 22
    Austria - Diplomatic Marriage - 17
    Babylon - Ingenuity - 25
    Brazil - Carnival - 21
    Byzantium - Patriarchate of Constantinople - 19
    Carthage - Phoenician Heritage - 21
    China - Art of War - 21
    Denmark - Viking Fury - 12
    Egypt - Monument Builders - 18
    England - Sun Never Sets - 18
    Ethiopia - Spirit of Adwa - 4
    France - City of Light - 10
    Germany - Furor Teutonicus - 10
    Greece - Hellenic League - 22
    India - Population Growth -6 (-3)- Sorry for those who like this it is simply too restrictive. Sure you can get big cities, but it is still the only civ with an explicit downside in their UA. Except for Venice, but they don't really count.
    Indonesia - Spice Islanders - 18
    Japan- Bushido - 7
    Korea - Scholars of the Jade Hall - 24
    Morocco - Gateway to Africa - 8
    Persia - Achaemenid Legacy - 21
    Poland - Solidarity - 27 (+1) -Good in every situation. Nothing more to say.
    Polynesia - Wayfinding - 22
    Portugal - Mare Clausum - 23
    [/COLOR]Rome - The Glory of Rome - 17
    Russia - Siberian Riches - 20
    Siam - Father Governs Children - 22
    Songhai - River Warlord - 20
    Spain - Seven Cities of Gold - 16
    Sweden - Nobel Prize - 19
    The Aztecs - Sacrificial Captives - 23
    The Celts - Druidic Lore - 8 -
    The Huns - Scourge of God - 9
    The Inca - Great Andean Road - 24
    The Iroquois - The Great Warpath - 18
    The Maya - The Long Count - 21
    The Netherlands - Dutch East India Company - 16
    The Ottomans - Barbary Corsairs - 17
    The Shoshone - Great Expanse - 22
    The Zulus - Iklwa - 21
    Venice - Serenissima - 12
     
  14. Teagen

    Teagen Warlord

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    Kinda surprising Babylon, Inca, and Korea are in the lead.
     
  15. Lorf Yimzo

    Lorf Yimzo Atheist

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    Not really, considering how useful science is, especially in higher difficulties. Inca, though, I thought would be a bit lower.

    And I'm pretty sure Poland has it in the bag.
     
  16. VicRatlhead5199

    VicRatlhead5199 King

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    Mainly personal experience here.
     
  17. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

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    I'm not sure I've voted for Poland yet because they're too obvious, and at this stage I like highlighting UAs that I like and think are underrated or better than average. Near the end, though, I think Poland would be my winner.
     
  18. VicRatlhead5199

    VicRatlhead5199 King

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    No kidding, I never did like the LKs. I did the "rush to civil service and spam LKs" thing once. It was pretty effective but then after that you're stuck with a bunch of units with a rotten upgrade path. The barbarian army thing actually got buffed with BNW now that they have horsemen, swords and those handaxe units. I just think it's weird that handaxes upgrade to knights.
     
  19. DeathwatchBob

    DeathwatchBob Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    61
    Arabia - Ships of the Desert - 22
    Assyria - Treasures of Nineveh - 22
    Austria - Diplomatic Marriage - 17
    Babylon - Ingenuity - 26
    Brazil - Carnival - 21
    Byzantium - Patriarchate of Constantinople - 19
    Carthage - Phoenician Heritage - 21
    China - Art of War - 21
    Denmark - Viking Fury - 12
    Egypt - Monument Builders - 18
    England - Sun Never Sets - 18
    Ethiopia - Spirit of Adwa - 1
    France - City of Light - 10
    Germany - Furor Teutonicus - 10
    Greece - Hellenic League - 22
    India - Population Growth -6
    Indonesia - Spice Islanders - 18
    Japan- Bushido - 7
    Korea - Scholars of the Jade Hall - 24
    Morocco - Gateway to Africa - 8
    Persia - Achaemenid Legacy - 21
    Poland - Solidarity - 27
    Polynesia - Wayfinding - 22
    Portugal - Mare Clausum - 23
    Rome - The Glory of Rome - 17
    Russia - Siberian Riches - 20
    Siam - Father Governs Children - 22
    Songhai - River Warlord - 20
    Spain - Seven Cities of Gold - 16
    Sweden - Nobel Prize - 19
    The Aztecs - Sacrificial Captives - 23
    The Celts - Druidic Lore - 8 -
    The Huns - Scourge of God - 9
    The Inca - Great Andean Road - 24
    The Iroquois - The Great Warpath - 18
    The Maya - The Long Count - 21
    The Netherlands - Dutch East India Company - 16
    The Ottomans - Barbary Corsairs - 17
    The Shoshone - Great Expanse - 22
    The Zulus - Iklwa - 21
    Venice - Serenissima - 12

    Dropping that early academy with Babylon feels like activating cheat mode. Then on top of getting to universities faster, you get faster great scientist generation.

    I would rather have any of the remaining UAs over Ethiopia's, so priming them for elimination.
     
  20. sendos

    sendos Immortal

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    Inca deserves to be up there because now you can exploit hill cities to maximum effect, as well as grab liberty, republic, free settler, etc.

    Also, with my Incan game, I started rather close to Mt Kailash. That was a true blessing indeed. :lol:
     
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