Unique Units elimination thread

[woodshadows]

African Forest Elephant 19
Atlatist 21
B17 6
Ballista 21
Battering Ram 18
Berserker 19
Bowmen 0
Camel Archer 24
Carolean 25
Cataphract 17
Chu-Ko-Nu 32
Companion Cavalry 21
Conquistador 22
Cossack 17
Dromon 18
Foreign Legion 21
Horse Archer 25
Hussar 19
Hwach'a 20
Immortal 20
Jaguar 23
Jannisary 28
Keshik 25
Landsknecht 20
Legion 22
Longbowman 31
Mandekalu Cavalry 12
Mehal Sefari 3
Minutemen 30
Mohawk Warrior 22 (-2)
Musketeer 18
Naresuan's Elephant 20
Norwegian Ski Infantry 7 (+1
Panzer 12
Pictish Warrior 20
Quinquereme 16
Samurai 20
Sea Beggar 30
Sipahi 16
Ship of the Line 22
Tercio 21

Landsknecht - With a higher upgrade cost than a regular pikeman and the lack of a more "oomph" powered feeling for Germany somewhere - the Landsknecht has always felt like a letdown
Norwegian Ski Infantry - The hills bonus is nice and can be used in many situations. The tundra + snow? Not so much. But double movement on hills also works to your advantage. When you have finished upgrading your berserkers to NSI the amhip + denmark UA allows this to be a very versatile and mobile unit

you minused the mohawk warrior, not the landknecht.. accident? also, are you sure about that 'higher upgrade cost than a regular pikeman', or do you mean from pikeman to lancer? but hey it only takes less than 10 gold to upgrade from spears to landsknechts and really, why upgrade them at all? upgrade the best of em and use the rest as cannon fodder, who wants a massive army of lancers.

 

[lb1785]

African Forest Elephant 19
Atlatist 21
B17 6
Ballista 21
Battering Ram 18
Berserker 19
Bowmen 0
Camel Archer 24
Carolean 25
Cataphract 17
Chu-Ko-Nu 32
Companion Cavalry 21
Conquistador 22
Cossack 15
Dromon 18
Foreign Legion 21
Horse Archer 25
Hussar 19
Hwach'a 21
Immortal 20
Jaguar 24
Jannisary 28
Keshik 25
Landsknecht 20
Legion 22
Longbowman 31
Mandekalu Cavalry 12
Mehal Sefari 3
Minutemen 30
Mohawk Warrior 22
Musketeer 18
Naresuan's Elephant 20
Norwegian Ski Infantry 5
Panzer 12
Pictish Warrior 20
Quinquereme 16
Samurai 20
Sea Beggar 30
Sipahi 16
Ship of the Line 22
Tercio 21

For cossack, I'm surprised it's not eliminated yet... Very boring, does not add to gameplay.

Hwach'a, on the other hand, is very nice in the sense that it forces the player to change the way he plays in the late Middle Age. No more trebuchet means you're not gonna take cities easily, but at the same time the hwach'a clears all the enemies attacking your cities if you position them well ! It's very nice if you need to play defense at this time in the game.

 

[Light Cleric]

African Forest Elephant 19
Atlatist 21
B17 6
Ballista 21
Battering Ram 18
Berserker 19
Bowmen 0
Camel Archer 24
Carolean 25
Cataphract 17
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 21
Conquistador 22
Cossack 15
Dromon 18
Foreign Legion 21
Horse Archer 25
Hussar 19
Hwach'a 21
Immortal 20
Jaguar 24
Jannisary 28
Keshik 25
Landsknecht 20
Legion 22
Longbowman 31
Mandekalu Cavalry 10
Mehal Sefari 3
Minutemen 30
Mohawk Warrior 22
Musketeer 18
Naresuan's Elephant 20
Norwegian Ski Infantry 5
Panzer 12
Pictish Warrior 20
Quinquereme 16
Samurai 20
Sea Beggar 30
Sipahi 16
Ship of the Line 22
Tercio 21

Chu-Ko-Nu: I don't know what I can say that isn't obvious. Two attacks is just beastly right off the bat, lets experience go to other promotions, keeps the promotion when upgraded. Range Chu-Ko-Nu can act as pseudo-artillery really.

Mandecavs: I've never been a huge fan of melee knight UUs because the AI has a hard-on for Pikemen, but Chivalry taking significantly longer makes them even less useful than in Vanilla. At least the Conquistador has the saving grace of the +2 sight, which makes them useful to keep around even in the later game as amazing scouts and spotters for your Artillery.

upgrade the best of em and use the rest as cannon fodder, who wants a massive army of lancers.

That's exactly why I dislike Germany, Lancers aren't bad units but do you really a ton of units that stalemate with their base unit? Or a carpet of helicopters?

 

[Mesix]

Hwach'a, on the other hand, is very nice in the sense that it forces the player to change the way he plays in the late Middle Age. No more trebuchet means you're not gonna take cities easily, but at the same time the hwach'a clears all the enemies attacking your cities if you position them well ! It's very nice if you need to play defense at this time in the game.

Until the bug gets fixed, Catapults upgraded to Hwach'a are are very effective at taking down city defenses. Build your siege units early and upgrade when the time comes.

 

[blackcatatonic]

Removed Bowman from the list as it was sitting there on 0 points for a few turns.

African Forest Elephant 19
Atlatist 21
B17 6
Ballista 21
Battering Ram 18
Berserker 19
Camel Archer 24
Carolean 25
Cataphract 15 (-2)
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 21
Conquistador 22
Cossack 15
Dromon 19 (+1)
Foreign Legion 21
Horse Archer 25
Hussar 19
Hwach'a 21
Immortal 20
Jaguar 24
Jannisary 28
Keshik 25
Landsknecht 20
Legion 22
Longbowman 31
Mandekalu Cavalry 10
Mehal Sefari 3
Minutemen 30
Mohawk Warrior 22
Musketeer 18
Naresuan's Elephant 20
Norwegian Ski Infantry 5
Panzer 12
Pictish Warrior 20
Quinquereme 16
Samurai 20
Sea Beggar 30
Sipahi 16
Ship of the Line 22
Tercio 21

A Byzantium-only units round for me...

The Cataphract I find somewhat pointless as a Horseman replacement, so it loses 2 points.

The Dromon on the other hand is great fun, and a ranged Trireme is a pretty huge deal now.

 

[Carl5872]

African Forest Elephant 19
Atlatist 21
B17 6
Ballista 21
Battering Ram 18
Berserker 19
Camel Archer 24
Carolean 25
Cataphract 15
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 21
Conquistador 22
Cossack 15
Dromon 19
Foreign Legion 21
Horse Archer 25
Hussar 19
Hwach'a 21
Immortal 20
Jaguar 24
Jannisary 28
Keshik 26 (+1)
Landsknecht 20
Legion 22
Longbowman 31
Mandekalu Cavalry 10
Mehal Sefari 1 (-2)
Minutemen 30
Mohawk Warrior 22
Musketeer 18
Naresuan's Elephant 20
Norwegian Ski Infantry 5
Panzer 12
Pictish Warrior 20
Quinquereme 16
Samurai 20
Sea Beggar 30
Sipahi 16
Ship of the Line 22
Tercio 21

Bump for the Keshik because with an intelligent human, you can make use of Parthian tactics to wear down a city without taking any damage.

Almost killed off the Mehal Sefari - its just so limited that at the time you have him, you must be defending your capital for him to be of any additional value. If you happen to be at peace, or defending a noncapital city, or on the offensive, he provides no additional benefit. Now to quote Mortal Kombat... "FINISH HIM!"

 

[Tabarnak]

Now to quote Mortal Kombat... "FINISH HIM!"

Johnny Cage: This is where you fall down.

TOASTY!!!

Epic game!


Link to video.

African Forest Elephant 19
Atlatist 21
B17 6
Ballista 21
Battering Ram 18
Berserker 19
Camel Archer 24
Carolean 26
Cataphract 15
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 21
Conquistador 22
Cossack 15
Dromon 19
Foreign Legion 21
Horse Archer 25
Hussar 19
Hwach'a 21
Immortal 20
Jaguar 24
Jannisary 28
Keshik 26
Landsknecht 20
Legion 22
Longbowman 31
Mandekalu Cavalry 10
Mehal Sefari 0
Minutemen 30
Mohawk Warrior 22
Musketeer 18
Naresuan's Elephant 20
Norwegian Ski Infantry 5
Panzer 12
Pictish Warrior 20
Quinquereme 16
Samurai 20
Sea Beggar 30
Sipahi 16
Ship of the Line 22
Tercio 21

Mehal Sefari : FATALITY to this guy. Nothing compared to...

Caroleans : Now we are talking about a nice rifleman UU! Offense is the best!

1 more to go before changing vote system

 

[krc]

Ninja'd trying to eliminate Mehal Safari....

 

[krc]

African Forest Elephant 19
Atlatist 21
B17 6
Ballista 21
Battering Ram 18
Berserker 19
Camel Archer 24
Carolean 26
Cataphract 15
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 21
Conquistador 22
Cossack 15
Dromon 19
Foreign Legion 21
Horse Archer 25
Hussar 19
Hwach'a 21
Immortal 20
Jaguar 24
Jannisary 28
Keshik 26
Landsknecht 20
Legion 22
Longbowman 31
Mandekalu Cavalry 10
Minutemen 30
Mohawk Warrior 22
Musketeer 18
Naresuan's Elephant 20
Norwegian Ski Infantry 5
Panzer 12
Pictish Warrior 20
Quinquereme 16
Samurai 20
Sea Beggar 30 + 1 = 31
Sipahi 16 -2 = 14
Ship of the Line 22
Tercio 21

Downgraded the Sipahi, since even improved Lancers aren't very useful.

I've become very fond of Sea Beggars. The restructuring of naval combat to include melee and ranges units was a big improvement, and makes naval invasions of distant continents not only possible but enjoyable. Having Sea Beggars to lead the assault (with a couple of Frigates to reduce the strength of enemy ships) quickly builds an unstoppable navy that can scoop up coastal cities.

 

[kamikazees]

African Forest Elephant 19
Atlatist 21
B17 6
Ballista 21
Battering Ram 18
Berserker 19
Camel Archer 24
Carolean 26
Cataphract 15
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 21
Conquistador 22
Cossack 15
Dromon 19
Foreign Legion 21
Horse Archer 25
Hussar 19
Hwach'a 21
Immortal 20
Jaguar 24
Jannisary 28
Keshik 26
Landsknecht 20
Legion 22
Longbowman 31
Mandekalu Cavalry 10
Minutemen 30
Mohawk Warrior 22
Musketeer 18
Naresuan's Elephant 20
Norwegian Ski Infantry 3 (-2)
Panzer 12
Pictish Warrior 20
Quinquereme 16
Samurai 20
Sea Beggar 31
Sipahi 14
Ship of the Line 23 (+1)
Tercio 21

Norwegian Ski Infantry: Can't believe these guys outlasted the Sefari. The bonus is good but so highly situational as to be nearly useless.

Ship of the Line: Increased strength does not normally make a great unit, but it does in a few instances. This is one of them. These things own for a long, long time.

 

[mintcandy]

One horse is like 45g. ._.

Hmm....so why did we need a 4 horse tile when 2 would have also worked?

 

[woodshadows]

That's exactly why I dislike Germany, Lancers aren't bad units but do you really a ton of units that stalemate with their base unit? Or a carpet of helicopters?

It can be pretty fun to swarm AI riflemen with your landsknecht spam though, I usually delay the tech for lancers just in order to keep a steady stream of them coming out. Around the time I see great war infantry I decide it's probably time to upgrade. Germany would be my go-to civ if their UA were fixed, 50% chance of converting a barb when defeated in his camp? pft. the 25% reduced unit maintenance is nice but not enough.

 

[Charlieguns]

African Forest Elephant 19
Atlatist 21
B17 6
Ballista 21
Battering Ram 18
Berserker 19
Camel Archer 24
Carolean 26
Cataphract 15
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 21
Conquistador 22
Cossack 15
Dromon 19
Foreign Legion 21
Horse Archer 25
Hussar 19
Hwach'a 21
Immortal 20
Jaguar 24
Jannisary 28
Keshik 26
Landsknecht 20
Legion 22
Longbowman 31 + 1 =32
Mandekalu Cavalry 10
Minutemen 30
Mohawk Warrior 22
Musketeer 18
Naresuan's Elephant 20
Norwegian Ski Infantry 3
Panzer 12
Pictish Warrior 20
Quinquereme 16 -2 = 14
Samurai 20
Sea Beggar 31
Sipahi 14
Ship of the Line 23
Tercio 21

Longbow: +1 range upgraded gatling guns
Quiquereme: lack of ancient naval battles make this unit not useful

 

[Leviat]

African Forest Elephant 19
Atlatist 21
B17 6
Ballista 21
Battering Ram 18
Berserker 19
Camel Archer 24
Carolean 26
Cataphract 15
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 21
Conquistador 22
Cossack 15
Dromon 19
Foreign Legion 21
Horse Archer 25
Hussar 19
Hwach'a 21
Immortal 20
Jaguar 24
Jannisary 28
Keshik 27
Legion 22
Longbowman 32
Mandekalu Cavalry 10
Minutemen 30
Mohawk Warrior 22
Musketeer 18
Naresuan's Elephant 20
Norwegian Ski Infantry 1
Panzer 12
Pictish Warrior 20
Quinquereme 14
Samurai 20
Sea Beggar 31
Sipahi 14
Ship of the Line 23
Tercio 21

Why is the ski infantry still here?

An army of Keshik's is the most frightening kind of army.

 

[Mesix]

African Forest Elephant 19
Atlatist 21
B17 6
Ballista 21
Battering Ram 18
Berserker 19
Camel Archer 24
Carolean 26
Cataphract 15
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 21
Conquistador 22
Cossack 15
Dromon 19
Foreign Legion 21
Horse Archer 25
Hussar 19
Hwach'a 21
Immortal 20
Jaguar 24
Jannisary 28
Keshik 27
Legion 22
Longbowman 32
Mandekalu Cavalry 10
Minutemen 31 (+1)
Mohawk Warrior 22
Musketeer 18
Naresuan's Elephant 20
Norwegian Ski Infantry 0
Panzer 12
Pictish Warrior 20
Quinquereme 14
Samurai 20
Sea Beggar 31
Sipahi 14
Ship of the Line 23
Tercio 21

Minutemen rock! +1 sight and no terrain penalties carried through unit upgrades for the rest of the game!

Allow me to do the honors. Bye, buy Norwegian Ski Infantry. A UU which I never seem to want for any reason. Doesn't fit with the viking theme of the Danish civ either.

 

[whyidie]

African Forest Elephant 19
Atlatist 21
B17 6
Ballista 21
Battering Ram 18
Berserker 19
Camel Archer 24
Carolean 26
Cataphract 15
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 21
Conquistador 22
Cossack 15
Dromon 19
Foreign Legion 21
Horse Archer 25
Hussar 19
Hwach'a 21
Immortal 20
Jaguar 24
Jannisary 28
Keshik 28
Legion 22
Longbowman 32
Mandekalu Cavalry 10
Minutemen 31
Mohawk Warrior 22
Musketeer 18
Naresuan's Elephant 20
Panzer 9
Pictish Warrior 20
Quinquereme 14
Samurai 20
Sea Beggar 31
Sipahi 14
Ship of the Line 23
Tercio 21

With Ski Infantry out I'll switch to 3 on the down vote.

Down vote on the panzer. Strength boost of 10, plus extra movement point doesn't inspire me at all.

Hard to vote against the Keshik. Finally got my first Mongol roll and they made combat fun. Didn't think much of the 50% experience gain until I was rolling in promotions. +2 movement allows hit an run tactics translates to highly promoted units. I haven't finished the Mongol scenario yet, but I've never had so many units with so many promotions that early.

Add in that they create a useful GG that will heal units and these guys are a blast to play with. If only there were more plains...

 

[Monthar]

African Forest Elephant 19
Atlatist 21
B17 7
Ballista 21
Battering Ram 18
Berserker 17
Camel Archer 24
Carolean 26
Cataphract 15
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 21
Conquistador 22
Cossack 15
Dromon 19
Foreign Legion 21
Horse Archer 25
Hussar 19
Hwach'a 21
Immortal 20
Jaguar 24
Jannisary 28
Keshik 28
Legion 22
Longbowman 32
Mandekalu Cavalry 10
Minutemen 31
Mohawk Warrior 22
Musketeer 18
Naresuan's Elephant 20
Panzer 9
Pictish Warrior 20
Quinquereme 14
Samurai 20
Sea Beggar 31
Sipahi 14
Ship of the Line 23
Tercio 21

Berzerker - Not as good in G&K as it was in vanilla.
B-17 - Much better in G&K, especially since Stealth is pushed way back. It's got more strength, siege 1 and evasion. This makes it like a mini-stealth that can have logistics and air repair immediately if you have all the + exp buildings and Brandenburg in the city it's built/bought at. Even without Brandenburg it can have either logistics or air repair and only be 15 xp short of the other.

 

[woodshadows]

African Forest Elephant 19
Atlatist 21
B17 7
Ballista 21
Battering Ram 18
Berserker 17
Camel Archer 24
Carolean 26
Cataphract 15
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 21
Conquistador 22
Cossack 15
Dromon 19
Foreign Legion 21
Horse Archer 25
Hussar 19
Hwach'a 21
Immortal 20
Jaguar 24
Jannisary 28
Keshik 28
Landscknecht 21
Legion 22
Longbowman 32
Mandekalu Cavalry 10
Minutemen 31
Mohawk Warrior 22
Musketeer 18
Naresuan's Elephant 20
Panzer 9
Pictish Warrior 20
Quinquereme 14
Samurai 20
Sea Beggar 31
Sipahi 12
Ship of the Line 23
Tercio 21


Post 274, Leviat, removed landsknechts from the list.. someone with more time may want to validate the scores, I gotta run.

I vote Landscknechts because Pikemen are strong and having two pikemen is like having one super pikeman that fights on two tiles at the same time, giving ultra flexibility/empire-wide coverage.

Downvote sipahi - hate lancers.

 

[lb1785]

African Forest Elephant 19
Atlatist 19
B17 7
Ballista 21
Battering Ram 18
Berserker 17
Camel Archer 24
Carolean 26
Cataphract 15
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 21
Conquistador 22
Cossack 15
Dromon 19
Foreign Legion 21
Horse Archer 25
Hussar 19
Hwach'a 21
Immortal 20
Jaguar 24
Jannisary 28
Keshik 28
Landsknecht 21
Legion 22
Longbowman 32
Mandekalu Cavalry 10
Minutemen 31
Mohawk Warrior 23
Musketeer 18
Naresuan's Elephant 20
Panzer 9
Pictish Warrior 20
Quinquereme 14
Samurai 20
Sea Beggar 31
Sipahi 12
Ship of the Line 23
Tercio 21

Atlatist goes down, I've started a game with Maya yesterday and I didn't find it that cool as a UU. OK, you get them earlier and they're cheaper, so it's good if you want to build an early defense (that's how I kicked the Carthagean out of my territory first time they attacked me). But they do not carry on any special ability once upgraded, which is a bit boring...

Mohawk warrior: they gave me a hard time when I tried invading the Iroquois once: this UU has a good synergy with its civ UA and they don't need iron !

By the way, corrected Landsknecht spelling

 

[Dogmouth]

African Forest Elephant 17 (-2)
Atlatist 19
B17 7
Ballista 21
Battering Ram 18
Berserker 17
Camel Archer 24
Carolean 26
Cataphract 15
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 21
Conquistador 22
Cossack 15
Dromon 19
Foreign Legion 21
Horse Archer 25
Hussar 19
Hwach'a 21
Immortal 20
Jaguar 24
Jannisary 28
Keshik 28
Landsknecht 21
Legion 22
Longbowman 32
Mandekalu Cavalry 10
Minutemen 31
Mohawk Warrior 24 (+1)
Musketeer 18
Naresuan's Elephant 20
Panzer 9
Pictish Warrior 20
Quinquereme 14
Samurai 20
Sea Beggar 31
Sipahi 12
Ship of the Line 23
Tercio 21

Plus to Mohawks and neg to Forest Elephants. The Forest Elephants are powerful, but their high costs seriously detract from that power. The AI also spams pikeman, which weakens the entire horse line. Mohawks are incredible offensive units that can easily be built while your opponents are still using warriors and spearman. A Mohawk and Cat army is a force to be reconed with in the classical game. They're also phenomenal defensive units, particularly given the Iroquois starting bias.