Unit Art

[Deon]

Here's the in-game screenshot:

Spoiler :

It still looks like a soldier so you don't normally confuse it with anything else, but also you immediately see that it's an Atreides unit.

Do you support the idea and the work behind it? I just don't want to spend a lot of man-hours and then to find out that it's unacceptable.

 

[davidlallen]

I think civ-specific art is great. You have also started up some threads on civ-specific buildings, a while ago. The Atreides palace is the one you finished, and that has been in the game for a while. Any art you give us can be guaranteed to go into the game.

 

[Deliverator]

It still looks like a soldier so you don't normally confuse it with anything else, but also you immediately see that it's an Atreides unit.

Do you support the idea and the work behind it? I just don't want to spend a lot of man-hours and then to find out that it's unacceptable.

I'm definitely in favour of creating more civ-specific units and using team colour a bit more as well. If you read the opening post, I have plans to replace a lot of the Guardsman units with something more Dunish and in keeping with the vague post-apocalyptic backstory. The idea is that initial units will look a bit tatty and desert-battered and progressively look more uniformed and better equipped as the game goes on. So, I like the general idea, but at the moment there are only a smallish number of human units where I'm really satisfied with the models.

 

[Deon]

Eh, your answer is quite opposite to Davidlallen's... Which one should I follow?

Should I wait until you implement more units or fiddle with the current ones?



Anyway, the current "infantry" looks like a mercenary/gladiator unit, not a standard "army" soldier. What's up with the random paint job and a menacing mask and a bold head which is not protected from behind?

So here's the current retexture for house Atreides infantry, in a full helmet and with "hawk" insignias. The helmet design is partially based on this:

In-game screenshot:

I attach an archive with appropriate XML changes and textures+models where they belong in case you want to include it in 1.7.3.

 

[Deliverator]

Eh, your answer is quite opposite to Davidlallen's... Which one should I follow?

We are not disagreeing. We are both saying that the idea of civ specific art is great.

Should I wait until you implement more units or fiddle with the current ones?

I say wait. With these specific guardsman models - the current Soldier and Infantry - I want to replace the models anyway as they are too 21st-century-Earth-looking so it is not worth reskinning them until we have more appropriate models in place in my opinion. I will sort out the Vehicles and Siege units next and then I can look at making new Soldiers and Infantry models.

Anyway, the current "infantry" looks like a mercenary/gladiator unit, not a standard "army" soldier. What's up with the random paint job and a menacing mask and a bold head which is not protected from behind?

I agree this model is not appropriate. It a good quality Sezereth bounty hunter model, but since we are already using a reskin of it for the Lascannon Trooper, I plan to replace it. As I said, reading the opening post will help you understand my thinking.

You have to bear in mind that a lot of the unit art is there because it hasn't been replaced yet and there is nothing more appropriate to hand.

There is definitely a need for buildings too. Things like Factory, Catchbasin, Reservoir of Liet, Desert Airfield, University. Anything that doesn't look particularly deserty and ancient or futuristic and sci-fi. There is a lot of duplicated building art and buttons; at the least it would be good to give every building a unique icon, so that the tech tree and city screen aren't so confusing.

 

[Deon]

Well, this is what can you do with SeZereth's gladiator:


Harkonnen:

I had to totally redraw the face because it was distorted on original texture. Other changes are easier.

Atreides:

(I've added transparency to the helmet glass so you can see a face, removed ammo packs on the chest to show insignia better and made some texture tweaks.


Can you make use of those reskins, or did I do it for nothing?

 

[Deliverator]

The Harkonnen one looks great. I like it. We can use that as an ethnic variant for perhaps the Heavy Trooper?

The Atreides one we can use for one of the Ducal units for now, although I'm not sure it would be the final look I would want for them. I think the Ducal Guard should really fight with melee weapons and perhaps have combined 19th century uniform with Greek style helmet thing going on....

 

[Deon]

Here's another reskin, next time following chemical/bio style.

May be useful for tleilaxu.

I've got some more but they need more work. Right now I use them as ethnic styles for different infantry. You see infantry most early game so this is something I want to see replaced first .

 

[Deon]

I was always a bit annoyed by "Great Spy swordsmen" so here's a reskin for Atreides swordsman:

In-Game screenshot:

Spoiler :

 

[Deliverator]

Here's another reskin, next time following chemical/bio style

Nice. Probably more suitable for Ordos with the green.

I've got some more but they need more work. Right now I use them as ethnic styles for different infantry. You see infantry most early game so this is something I want to see replaced first .

I understand wanting to replace the Infantry as it is early, but as I have said I want the Infantry to be more basically equipped and make a new model for them. These reskins are good for Heavy Trooper era I think. If the early units have heavy weaponry and heavy armour then there is no progression. I have some pistol animations I have been working on that I would like to use for the new Soldier/Infantry.

I was always a bit annoyed by "Great Spy swordsmen" so here's a reskin for Atreides swordsman

I like this one too. Nice work. Particularly, the uniform is the kind of look we want I think. Might swap the head for something else, but headswaps are pretty easy. We could make the coloured parts greyscaled and transparent to make different team colour uniforms.

 

[Deliverator]

There is a lot of good raw material for improving the Melee line in the latest version of Total Realism mod and ambrox's Classical Era Units.

 

[Deliverator]

Proof of Concept - Civ Badges without multiple NIFs

The above might not look particularly impressive, but they are both the same NIF file. The badges are altered only by animation which means every Civ can have its own badge on vehicles without us needing 9 different NIF files which would take up a lot of file space.

Here's the setup:
1. The NIF contains simple two-triangle planes for the logos that have been aligned to the body of the vehicle. There are 9 copies of these within the NIF one for each civilization - the polycount addition is still small even with 3 logos on the body you'd have 3 x 2 x 9 = 54 additional polygons/triangles.

2. The icons sit in the assets/shared directory so there is no need to have 9 additional texture files for each vehicle.

3. Each vehicle will need 9 KFM files for each civ (e.g. Invasion_Ship_Atreides.kfm, Invasion_Ship_Harkonnen.kfm) and 9 idle KF animation files to show/hide the relevant logo for each civ (e.g. InvasionShip_MD_Idle_Atreides.kf, InvasionShip_MD_Idle_Harkonnen.kf).

4. You then have 9 different Art Defines for each civ which use the same NIF but the different KFMs like this:

<NIF>Art/Units/sus_frigate/InvasionShip.nif</NIF>		
<KFM>Art/Units/sus_frigate/InvasionShip_Atreides.kfm</KFM>

5. Finally, you use CIV4UnitArtStyleTypeInfos.xml to point to the 9 different art defines based on what Civ you are.

This means we can use team colour and these badges to create variations without needing to multiply the number of NIFs.

 

[Deon]

Cool idea! If only I knew how to make different .kfm for logos .

 

[Ahriman]

Fantastic stuff. I agree that those are good for Heavy Trooper replacements.

I really like the Atreides swordsman guys, not sure which slot they best fill though.

[I'm just watching the Kenneth Branagh version of Hamlet; man, 19th century military uniforms look badass.]

On the Ducal Guard, I'm actually reminded of some of the sequences from Dune2. There's a sequence when you win the game for each faction; with Harkonnen you have some heavy trooper guys come blast the emperor, the Ordos one has some kind of beastie let loose to eat him, the Atreides just come in and give him a lecture. And the Atreides Mentat is flanked by a couple of guards with big Shields, Spears and Hoplite helmets. I think that's what I had in mind (though no particular need for spears); I think these guys should be melee class, not guardsman class.
[Actually though, spears make a ton of sense for shield fighting; you can slowly poke them through a shield and then stab while still being a reasonable distance away from the enemy.]

The badges look very good too.

 

[Deon]

I've made a more "classical" reskin of the swordsman.

I wonder if it's useful for anything .

 

[Deliverator]

I've made a more "classical" reskin of the swordsman.
I wonder if it's useful for anything .

Ginaz Swordmaster perhaps... with a new head again I think.

You are clearly better at texturing than me, but I have quite a lot of experience now with cutting up bits of human units and re-rigging, etc. If I make some new models by combining bits from some existing units, then I can hand them over to you for reskinning. If there's any existing vanilla or other units where you'd like the head swapped or anything like that let me know.

There's a sequence when you win the game for each faction; with Harkonnen you have some heavy trooper guys come blast the emperor, the Ordos one has some kind of beastie let loose to eat him, the Atreides just come in and give him a lecture. And the Atreides Mentat is flanked by a couple of guards with big Shields, Spears and Hoplite helmets.

Good old Youtube...

 

[Ahriman]

Ginaz Swordmaster perhaps... with a new head again I think.

I think that unit is gone?
I'm unsure on the stripy pantaloons... doesn't feel very Duneish to me.

Good old Youtube...

That's the one! Man, I haven't played that game in ~16 years.

I'm not sure what function the heavy armor has, but it does look badass for a model.

 

[Deon]

I'm unsure on the stripy pantaloons... doesn't feel very Duneish to me.

I was just experimenting . Not for Dune, just for fun.

I'm not sure what function the heavy armor has

It looks like a ritual/grand armor, not a combat suit.

 

[Deon]

I thought that current Sayyadina art is quite meh. A female settler with a pot .

So I thought that I could reskin this vampire model to play this role better.

I retextured the face (it had weird proportions on original texture) and removed nudity elements. Also I've made the dress into a robe with a hair being a cape.

 

[Ahriman]

I'd drop the sword, or make it a small knife, to emphasize that this isn't a combat unit.