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Unofficial BTS 3.13 patch

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Bhruic, Oct 5, 2007.

  1. Bhruic

    Bhruic Emperor

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    When you're dealing with a project of this size, there is no single "poor coder". Most, if not all of the code has been touched on by multiple people.

    I think you're vastly overestimating the impact of this particular bug. The only impact fixing it will have is that the AI will give a slight preference increase to defending a captured Holy City. With a maximum of 7 Holy Cities out there, AIs that don't tend to capture cities frequently, and the minimal nature of the defensive increase, I don't expect anyone will really notice any tangible difference in their typical gameplay.

    That's not in any way taking away from the kudos for spotting this bug, but I don't want people getting any ideas that fixing this is going to have a major impact on AI performance - it's not.

    Bh
     
  2. Balderstrom

    Balderstrom Emperor

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    How is that a fix, if you look at the code initially posted, both IF checks happen
    THe first one sets up a minimum value of at least 1, and more if it is holy or a wonder.
    Then the next check happens and increases the Defenders again...

    Any change would surely break what was Intended

    And everyone agreeing with OP? WTH?
     
  3. Harrier

    Harrier Deity

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    Well - with a post like this. Maybe you should elaborate on what was intended. As you are obviously a Firaxian - in order to make such a bold statement.

    We wait with interest. ;):D:p:cool::crazyeye:
     
  4. Bhruic

    Bhruic Emperor

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    You are misreading the code and drawing faulty conclusions. First, there is no logical reason that the developers would want the AI to defend Holy Cities less. Second, there is no logical reason that you would set the minimum value of a variable to 1, and then immediately set the minimum value to 2. Finally, neither you nor I are capable of concluding what the developers "intended". We are (or should be) capable of making logical inferences based on the code.

    This fix makes sense.

    Bh
     
  5. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    Here is a shot of the last spy/religion bug I ran into my last game. I'm still not sure what is going on but maybe someone can tell me.

    Justinian founded Bud, and I adapted from the start. Yet not once the whole game did I ever get a 15% discount for sharing state religion.

    Meanwhile, Saladin, who was on another continent, was under Hind the whole time, and I also (obviously) didn't get a discount on using spies on his city he built over here.

    Suddenly, he switched to Free-Religion. NOW things are weird. NOW I get a 15% spy discount??? He is not even running a religion.

     
  6. Roland Johansen

    Roland Johansen Deity

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    You get the -15% state religion discount when your state religion is in their city and its not their state religion. You could explain that by saying that the local religious fanatics are more loyal to a civilisation who uses their religion as a state religion than to their own civilisation and are thus helping your spies.

    You get another -25% discount when you control the holy city.
     
  7. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    Thanks Roland, that is a bit strange, and the wording does seem very misleading but I guess I understand now. Now I feel embarrased, as I could have easily gave myself a 15% discount for a MUCH longer time had I understood this concept.

    I wrongly concluded (as most) that it was related to the FOUNDER of a religion (i.e. who controls the holy city).

    Thanks for clearing this up, I'm sure a lot of others will learn from that too.
     
  8. glider1

    glider1 Deity

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    You get another "discount" if you can capture and control the holy city from an AI...... (until Bhruic releases a fix for the holy city defenders bug) :rolleyes: Kidding.

    Thanks for that excellent "analogy" to understanding the logic of discounts. The only manual you really need for playing civ is "Real Human History 101".

    Cheers.
     
  9. Roland Johansen

    Roland Johansen Deity

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    Bhruic (yes, him again ;) ) started a thread a while ago that explains a lot of effects of the espionage system in BTS. I don't think the BTS espionage model is bad, it's just undocumented and somewhat buggy. Thanks to the official and unofficial patches, it's now working pretty well. Although, personally I dislike the fact that the espionage point cost of changing the civic or religion of your opponent in unrelated to the size of their economy while the cost of such a change to your opponent is related to the size of their economy. The anarchy period required for changing back is stopping their economy for several turns.

    You can find that thread here: Spy detection.

    Notice that not all information is contained in the first post. The answer that I gave you came from post 21, an excellent post by Krikkitone. Here is the sentence that contained that information.

    There is also a War Academy article about espionage: Complete Espionage Mission Cost Guide (BTS)
     
  10. eeevans

    eeevans Chieftain

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    much kudos to bhruic for ze patches...

    just recently upgraded to bts and loving it...

    one small thing i've noticed - i'm unable to completely clear down the build queue in a city in bts (am sure i could in vanilla)... it's nothing major - but a slight pain in't arse...

    for example, last night i had two unique items in build (ie. spaceship parts) and i needed to switch them between two cities for a quicker build time on the longest one... but i had to add a random unit to the each queue before i could delete the part and re-assign it in the other city....

    anyways, keep up the good work!
     
  11. Wilhelmus

    Wilhelmus Chieftain

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    Wow major update! Great work!

    For a moment I thought work on your unofficial patch was halted while some issues still remained.

    Thank you very much for this. I'm especially happy with the fixes for sabotage building mission and the floodplainless desert rivers!

    /Edit
    Does the tweak to starting locations fix starts where there is a river which ends just one tile from the settler, and then a lake appears to supply fresh water? This is always frustrating to me (except when playing the Dutch), as I can't build a levee. Why not extend or curve the river by one tile, to put the settler on river fresh water?
     
  12. Woody1

    Woody1 Prince

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    Yeah, it's great to know this unofficial patch is still being worked on, because I think Firaxis has given up on the official patch.
     
  13. NikNaks

    NikNaks Deity

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    Trust me, it hasn't. The devs just need to get it released.
     
  14. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    It hasn't been released for what... since way last year?

    In the software industry, that is considered stone-age.
     
  15. Dagta

    Dagta Chieftain

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    anyone know?
     
  16. Duuk

    Duuk Doom-Sayer Supporter

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    With or without the most recent Bhuiric fixes?

    Any Firaxis patch at this point will have to be stellar just to meet the existing Bhuir patch status.
     
  17. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    Hmm, here is one more issue that has me puzzled. And we're sort of debating in another thread if this is somehow logical, or just another bug.

    I ended up nuking a city by a civ who doesn't even have the SDI yet, but instead I get my nuke shot down by the other leader on his continent.

     
  18. grumbler

    grumbler Prince

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    I'd vote for logical. Judging from the minimap, the nuke would have passed Qin's territory. Now, if you were in possession of a SDI system and saw a ICBM moving towards one of your cities, would you wait to see, if it was just flying by or shoot it down immediately? ;)
     
  19. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    Well if that's the case, then I should be allowed to use way-points :p Then problem solved.
     
  20. Roland Johansen

    Roland Johansen Deity

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    The area of the nuclear blast doesn't seem to effect the Chinese territory, so I don't know why the game let's the Chinese civilisation shoot down the ICBM.

    Some questions:
    Is there a Chinese unit in Ghenghis city? In that case, I would find it logical that the ICBM was shot down.

    Are the Chinese and the Mongolese civilisations in a Permanent alliance? Again, in that case, I would find it logical to see an ICBM shot down by the permanent alliance partner.

    Is there a hidden Chinese spy in the nuclear blast area? You'll need to enter the World Builder to see that, but I think spies shouldn't cause the SDI to react.

    Maybe it's a range thing. Maybe any ICBM within range 3 of an SDI-owning civilisation is eligible to be shot down by the SDI of that civilisation.

    This is again a rule thing. Some of the rules of this game are hidden. You won't encounter those rules in your first game, but an experienced player will at some point get lots of questions about game rules which aren't well documented.
     

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