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Unofficial BTS 3.13 patch

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Bhruic, Oct 5, 2007.

  1. Yakk

    Yakk Cheftan

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    Maybe many of these things might behave differently on save/reload?

    I'll see if some tweaks fix the problem.
     
  2. Duuk

    Duuk Doom-Sayer Supporter

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    Yup. And I play MP probably twice a week.
     
  3. Lord_Zath

    Lord_Zath Prince

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    I also play w/random events on in MP w/o problems. It all comes down to how it's been installed.
     
  4. Duuk

    Duuk Doom-Sayer Supporter

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    If you plan on playing MP with the unofficial patch:

    EVERYONE THAT PLAYS must do the following:

    Completely uninstall Civ4.

    Delete the directory.

    Delete the My Documents\ directory Civ4 saves stuff in.

    Chant wiccan spells over your hard drive.

    Reinstall Civ4, Warlords, BtS. Update to 3.13. Install Bhuiric's patch.
     
  5. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    I've a small question for Bhruic....

    What is the rationale of the bolded feature ( the only reason I didn't patched with this version already ) ?

    I know that is to prevent some cheesy ways of winning via AP ( it does not prevent the junk city trick, though..... ) but besides adding another human-AI diferent tratment ( not that AI will try to git missionaries to Theo humans often ;) , but that is not the point ), it also can be exploited to make a AP WW against a civ stupid enough to acept being bribed to Theo, because they will never get the AP religion on

    P.S I reread my post and I think that I wasn't clear... Theo civic prevents unwanted spread of non state religions ( not the advertised in the civic screen ,but.... ). The issue is not the accepting or not a missionary under Theo, but using it. That is the point where the AI is weak ( AI does not think on the consequences of the missionary usage in terms of AP and doesnot spread non state religions under theo ( but it should sometimes ... mainly for AP votes issues ) ) , and because of that this particular issue IMHO falls under the AI code, making it material for a "better BtS AI" project. And AFAIK this isn't the case in here.....
     
  6. Woody1

    Woody1 Prince

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    Well, I used to use the missionary exploit to get more coins in my religious shrines. If a civ was under theocracy, I'd just gift a missionary and they'd spread my religion anyway.

    I liked the exploit, but it did feel like bug.
     
  7. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

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    All that makes sense and are concerns... unfortunately it seems like the only way to truly fix things is to add a major chunk of AI logic code to handle this issue and all the ancillary issues. What Bhruic did was "patch" the most glaring of the issues with a quick simple fix. Adding some major logic is another ball of wax altogether.

    So, I'm not saying you're wrong, but what Bh did was great as a first step. Whether or not adding major logic is within the purview of another version of his patch is debatable, or whether it should be reported to Firaxis in the hope they'll fix it in the next major upgrade.

    Wodan
     
  8. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    I agree that there is a problem in that area, but I think that this is the first time that Bhruic messes with the AI behaviour besides the trade bug and the exec spam bug ( that IMHO are in a diferent level of bugging ) and that the solution is far from elegant ( IMHO it is more a band aid than a solution and it doesn't even prevent the "junk city with religion" gift ) and it does not adress to the root of the problem ( that is the AI misusage of missionaries and their inability of understanding strategic spreading ).

    My opinion ( take it with as much salt as you want ) is that the solution of this issue is out of the scope of the previous Bhruic work pattern and that is why I asked him the rationale behind.
     
  9. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

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    Well I gave my two cents: because it fixes the most blatant abuse and worst storyline rationale break, without a huge amount of work.

    Wodan
     
  10. jkp1187

    jkp1187 Unindicted Co-Conspirator

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    I agree -- this is a needed fix to address an exploit.

    Personally, I would've preferred the ban to include Human players too, but I understand the reasoning behind limiting it to AI players. (Analogous to the reasoning behind banning Humans becoming vassals to AI players.)

    If someone wants to devote the time and energy to 'teaching' the AI how to properly handle missionary unit gifts, that would be lovely. Until that time, I'll make do with the 'band-aid'. :)
     
  11. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Deity

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    I think he once said that a theocratic civ will still accept missionaries if they are going for a culture victory but that also had the problem that you then know exactly what they're planning.
     
  12. KaytieKat

    KaytieKat King

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    Hi

    For me I always felt like the "bug" going in with theoacracy was that it allowed nonstate spread at all. The in game description seems to imply that when in theocracy that nonsate missionaries wont work whether they are the AI's or yours. And that allowing yours to work is a bug.

    From gameplay perspective it is like every civic usually has pros and cons. Pro of theo is xtra exp for military units. Cons is that if you found or capture aanother holy shrine somehow you wont be able to take advantage of it whether it the extra gold or just the extra culture until you leave theo.

    From realism perspective a theocracy government making and using missionaries of diff religion to spread that religion through areas they control would be like if the taliban had been recruiting and encourraging jehovahs witness's to go spread their faith around hehe

    Kaytie
     
  13. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Kaytie:

    I assume that is a indended feature, mainly because that behaviour is known since vanilla and in the only time that Firaxis changed something in Theo was to prevent the civs to lock themselfs in religionless Theocracy until the end of days.

    About your comparison.... technically it already happened in Iberian penisula in the Cordoban caliphate ( jews under sharia .... ) and under Saladin in Palestine ( again Jews ... better Jews than Franj ( Christians ) , they thought ).

    And given that AP hammers in games are a huge asset ( not mentioning the risk of being in the wrong side of a AP driven war ), denying AP religion to a AI ( bribing or via spy + last Bh patch ) can be considered exploitive as well......
     
  14. Wolfshanze

    Wolfshanze CFC Historian

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    Does anybody have a version of this Bhruic Patch v1.21 that ALSO includes the ability to play with 40 civs?

    I have a modified Bhruic Patch v1.11 that allows 40-civs, but not the new version Bhruic released.
     
  15. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

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    I am pretty sure I have gifted missionaries to AIs while they are in Theo. I only have Bh's DLL installed, does that matter?

    I have noticed that the AI doesnt always give the city you wish the intended religion. In a recent game, SB was in Theo, I gifted him a Hindu missionary in a 3 pop city, and the next turn, the 14 pop city near it was Hindu, not the 3-pop one.
     
  16. JujuLautre

    JujuLautre Deity

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    I remember a discussion on a different thread a while ago, and thought I could share it here.

    It was about some AI that seemed to always DOW on a player, even when his power was much bigger than the AI. The interesting point in the discussion was that the player always spent lots of ressources into espionnage, thus making perhaps the demographics un-available to the AI.

    So my question: does anyone have a good enough understanding of the code to look the behaviour of the AI when it doesn't have enough EP to know the power rating of an opponent? Does it rush head-on, does it sit back quietly, or is this factor just discarded from the DOW % calculation ?
     
  17. jdog5000

    jdog5000 Revolutionary

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    The AI is never in the dark about any other players power rating when making war decisions. That espionage restriction really only applies to the human player, the AI has a hard enough time making 'good' decisions as it is.
     
  18. Thronsen

    Thronsen Chieftain

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    Is it necessary to reinstall Warlords if you just want to play BTS? Will you still get the Great Wall, Great Generals etc?
     
  19. Woody1

    Woody1 Prince

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    I believe BTS includes all the features of Warlords for the regular game. But, you won't get the scenarios included with Warlords unless you install it. If you don't care about the Warlords scenarios (most people probably don't), then you can skip installing Warlords.
     
  20. Thronsen

    Thronsen Chieftain

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    Great thanks alot.

    If you dont Multiplay, should you delete and reinstall, or can you just patch to 3.13 and then use the unofficial patch?
     

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