v1.983 - v1.483 - v1.183

[JujuLautre]

Interesting. I think its broken then, cause while I had traded fro Philosophy, I could offer it to Portugal many turns later. I think I actually received Philosophy from a GP.

When no tech brokering is on, AIs are reluctant to trade for techs they are finishing, because it means that they would not be able to trade them. So it could be that the AI was on its way to philosophy.

This feature is here to prevent the exploit "when you are at one turn from completion of your tech, I give it to you so that you will not be able to trade it"

I believe that if you hover the tech in the diplo screen, the message will be different (like "we would not gain anything...", I don't remember, did not play with no tech brokering in ages)

 

[NerfCothons]

As to Mongolian weakness, I saw someone suggest empowering Keshiks a couple points back in the day as a possible solution. I mean they did historically get to Eastern Europe so we should be able to rely on them to beat China most of the time right?

The Vikings´ new found aversion to building cities is unfortunate, but how much has really changed? It´s not like we frequently saw AI generated Viking empires outside of Scandanavia before.

 

[Verily]

Actually IIRC at the time China was three corrupt and decadent states, although my Asian history is not too good

China at the time of the Mongol conquest was divided into two states: The Jin Dynasty in the north and the Southern Song dynasty in the south. The Song were "decadent" in the sense of not focusing at all on their military, although the Song was a period of intense technological and cultural development in southern China. The Jin Dynasty was ruled by Jurchen peoples from northeast of China proper (and probably the ancestors of the Manchu who later ruled as the Qing dynasty). They were politically weak by this point due to tensions between the Jurchen ruling class and the existing Chinese bureaucrats but still militarily strong.

 

[kairob]

Thanks Verily, I get it now. I am a bit Eurocentric when it comes to history but I have done the Mongols enough to know just how kick ass they are, apparently got 4x the Roman Empire within the lifespan of one person!
Now obviously Civ cant ever replicate that exactly as that's only about 2 turns, but I do think they should have some pretty big potential militarily.

So my suggestion would be to treat the two effects the Mongols had on history in two different ways.

Firstly Genghis and the Rise of the Yuan Dynasty in China could be represented by the actual Mongol Civ just as it is now and we wouldn't have to change anything at all in east asia.

However to represent The Golden Horde could be represented by a huge influx of Barbarian horse archers in the Kazakhstan region, scripted or tricked into only going westward, attacking the Middle East and Russia in huge numbers. Defending against them should be possible though if your well prepared.

 

[blizzrd]

When no tech brokering is on, AIs are reluctant to trade for techs they are finishing, because it means that they would not be able to trade them. So it could be that the AI was on its way to philosophy.

This feature is here to prevent the exploit "when you are at one turn from completion of your tech, I give it to you so that you will not be able to trade it"

I believe that if you hover the tech in the diplo screen, the message will be different (like "we would not gain anything...", I don't remember, did not play with no tech brokering in ages)

You are absolutely correct.

 

[Barak]

Playing as England form the 3000 start, Christianity has been reduced to a forgotten religion, and for some reason, Europe is not getting religious spread. England, Netherlands, Spain and Viking have no religion as of 1320. France is Islamic and Germany is Buddhist.

Fun times.

 

[The Q-Meister]

Playing as Arabia right now: is it just me or has it gotten easier? Maybe it's just the game I'm playing because in 1230 now I have Persia, Mesopotamia, Egypt, a city in Anatolia and the Maghreb and running a +6 GPT with 60% science. My other games as Arabia my economy is screaming by now.

Anyway have a big decision to make: for the first time that I can recall in my games, Spain is Muslim. I would love to be able to vassalize it instead of conquer even though that would be possible as well. I'm just so pleased with the way my economy is going and considering that I don't even have banking yet I can't remember being in a stronger position as Arabia. The other consideration is that the Christian Holy City is destroyed so I must go invade India.

Right now Spain is pleased with me, have Open Borders, have +8 relationship with no negative and warring with a common enemy. Gave them/traded them all my techs and resources as well. Vassal state however is still in red Hoping this will change but don't know.

Anyone here manage to successfully vassalize Spain peacefully?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I think there's a hidden modifier that doesn't really allow Spain to spontaneously vassalize to Arabia. Then again, unless Spain's really losing a war against Portugal or France in the old days, I've never seen a spontaneous Spanish vassalization to anybody (unlike Portugal, Khmer, Inca, Aztecs, sometimes Vikings).

 

[Rhye]

there are no hidden modifiers of mine.
It can depend on the leader personality

 

[Deego3]

Ive never seen Christianity as a major religion. Its usally rased before France spawns.

 

[ostar]

Ive never seen Christianity as a major religion. Its usally rased before France spawns.

It's a major European religion in my game, but then I'm playing Ethiopia and deliberately spreading it.
However I have contacted European nations for the first time and found they were already Christian. Also, I've seen England for example switch from Islam to Christianity, and Spain may have done the same before I met them.
Oddly, France has been Islamic for both the Ethiopian and Incan games I have played. Or perhaps not too odd, what with France's historically better relations with Islamic countries like the Ottomans.

 

[blizzrd]

Playing as England form the 3000 start, Christianity has been reduced to a forgotten religion, and for some reason, Europe is not getting religious spread. England, Netherlands, Spain and Viking have no religion as of 1320. France is Islamic and Germany is Buddhist.

Fun times.

Did you check the F7 religions screen to see if the Christian Holy City had been razed? If it says "None" under Christianity, that is probably a good reason why Christianity isn't speading in Europe...

 

[blizzrd]

Anyone here manage to successfully vassalize Spain peacefully?

Not me. For any civ to willingly become a vassal, they have to feel threatened by a rival. In theory, France or England might be able to threaten Spain, but I've never seen it happen. I don't think Portugal is strong enough to be a threat to Spain, but it might be possible.

For an example of a threatenned civ spontaneously vassalizing, Khmer often vassalizes to the first old world civ that contacts them because China and/or Mongolia are a threat to them. Aztecs and Incas also regularly spontaneously vassalize to a neutral civ when faced with a stack of incoming conqueror units.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I don't think Portugal is strong enough to be a threat to Spain, but it might be possible.

I've seen Portugal conquer Spain.

 

[Barak]

Christianity had been founded in Sparta, which was at the time in Independant hands. Eventually, Islam spread to western europe, and is the #3 religion behind Buddhism and Confucianism.

In the same game it is now 1872 and I have yet to get a congress. When are we expected to get them with the new time line? I would have expected the first no later than 1814 or so.

 

[LukeUeda-Sarson]

Has the rate of desertion been altered in 1.183?

I've never tried to go against a flip before, so I decided to try it out in a Rome game. I was under the impression you lost just a single unit each turn, and it was your least advanced one in the area.

However, the least number of of units I've lost in this experiment per turn is 2, but 4 is just as common, and they are not always the least technologically adavnced ones (unless legionaries are graded equally to catapults). I've played 5 turns of flip resisting the French so far, and have lost IIRC 18 units to desertions.

How long will it go on for? Does the fact that they don't have any cities to call home make any difference?

Cheers, Luke

 

[The Q-Meister]

Not me. For any civ to willingly become a vassal, they have to feel threatened by a rival. In theory, France or England might be able to threaten Spain, but I've never seen it happen. I don't think Portugal is strong enough to be a threat to Spain, but it might be possible.

For an example of a threatenned civ spontaneously vassalizing, Khmer often vassalizes to the first old world civ that contacts them because China and/or Mongolia are a threat to them. Aztecs and Incas also regularly spontaneously vassalize to a neutral civ when faced with a stack of incoming conqueror units.

You're right - wasn't able to get Spain. In fact I had trouble getting anyone as a vassal as Arabia, even the usually reliable Mali refused me!

 

[The Q-Meister]

Has stability gotten tougher for anyone? Especiallly with civics? I remember in my classical games slavery would get me 4 stars and in the medieval era HR + vassalage would be an easy 4 stars for civics but thus far I've been in 2-3 star land.

 

[NerfCothons]

You're right - wasn't able to get Spain. In fact I had trouble getting anyone as a vassal as Arabia, even the usually reliable Mali refused me!

I´ve seen a bug where the fact that the game considers you at war with one of the two independent civs and another civ at peace with them prevents vassalage. This occured in .81 but I was playing a Carthage game and was first to meet the Incans, Mayans, and the Aztecs. The Aztecs were more than happy to vassal(ize?) upon meeting them but the Incans weren´t. I knew that I should be able to vassalize them given the similarity of the situation, so I went into the WB and discovered that the only civ we disagreed with on peace/war was one of the independents. So I forced myself into peace via WB and viola, they wanted to vassalize. Perhaps this contributed.

 

[The Q-Meister]

Interesting the way vassalizing civs work. In my Rome games where Rome is the most powerful civ, I had every civ from Ethiopia to Mali to France to Babylon asking me to protect them whreas in my game as Arabia as mentioned I couldn't get anyone! And I was the #1 civ there as well. It could just be different games and different dynamics at play here but it is interesting how it certainly doesn't seem to be an exact science to it, which is good in a way.