v10 feedback

[deadliver]

Dropships are naval units which can move over land.

Sneaky, they are a cruiser unit hmm. as far as the promotion goes I will see if I have the game.

 

[slugwalk]

Dropships are naval units which can move over land.

Ah! Of course! Neat

 

[Pfeffersack]

I was wondering when someone would notice.

I've been wondering what to do with this. I was thinking to, of course, disallow the capturing of the native life of Planet-friendly faction, but still allow it for the native life of factions with a negative Planet Attitude.

If that solution is possible, it would be great. Perhaps your own PA should play a role as well - it must be better then the opponents one and the greater the difference, the higher the capture chance would become.

In another instance I received every promotion in the game for my carrier after I killed a sealurk

I cannot replicate this. If you encounter it again and have a save of shortly before it happened, it would be welcome!

Just a wild guess...but endless promotions were a consequence of the UAC enabled in the "Mars Now"-Mod. I never had problems with killing sealurks so far...a question...how did the "access" exactly happened? Did you get a ton of experience for the fight allowing you to promote or seemed this to be unconnect to unused experience?

 

[The_J]

That bug influenced a bit more, and was caused through a crash in the CvPath.py, which Planetfall doesn't have (okay, i have only v8 here).
If more Python is involved in this combat, it could be a good point to start.

 

[Panopticon]

I am greatly enjoying this mod, it brings back memories of SMAC, which I last played on a slow boat from Helsinki to Tallinn. I have begun a game as Lal and have noticed two things which may be of interest, or may already be known:
1. I get a CTD when I load up Datalinks from the main menu and hover over certain icons, e.g. the tech prerequisite icon for Autarky.
2. There seems to be a very high rate of ship generation from Unity pods. I obtained four ships by popping pods - one at land, three at sea. This makes naval exploration very rapid if you get an early ship. I will add the caveat that I am basing this on a single observation.

 

[deadliver]

Okay so that Carrier promotion bug came up again. I have attached the saved game. use the carrier in the Hive capital to kill the isle of the deep (i think that is the unit, it will attack the proper one anyhow).

 

[Lord Tirian]

Okay, free day today - and instead of working on something graphical, I wanted to play a bit - normal speed, large map. Played my favourite faction, University - and for a change, I wanted to play as Hybrid instead of Terraformer.

And, wow, a hybrid strategy is overwhelmingly easier to play and massively powerful! After some thinking, I think I also know why:

• Positive planet value allows me a great, fast landgrab, getting a lot of good land fast.
• It's a self-reinforcing strategy - I build new bases, keep them small by churning out colony pods, which I plant near fungus - result: Every base gets me a positive planetvalue due to the fungus (extended by an early Biolab), making this strategy even more efficient. It's a bit like infinite city sprawl back then!
• Maintenance doesn't bother me - I benefit massively from planting windmills over other improvements, hence I get lots of energy - the Hybrid civic also keeps maintenance down. Plus, as I don't need to mow down as much xenofungus, my formers are pretty efficient.
• Native life doesn't hate me - exploration is easier, getting me more goodies from pods.
• Production is... surprisingly high. Small bases (now with VoP) have such a high planetvalue, that I can easily sneak a couple of mines into the fat cross without significant impact on the planetvalue - it's not a top-production, but enough to live with.
• As I get lots of energy (and I'm in fact rewarded for that), I get lots of research as well, putting me further ahead, unlocking the new centauri techs *fast*.

The strategy gives you an distinct advantage during the early game, then it slumps a bit, but once you hit the Hybrid civic, it goes faster and faster. As a terraformer, I may have a possible good endgame (boreholes, huge bases and stuff)... but I'll never get there, because native life costs me lots of resources (more than I gain through being a Terraformer) - and once I got enough momentum to do something... the Hybrids have overtaken my already and playing catch-up with them isn't a great strategy!

Essentially, as terraformer, you sacrifice fast early expansion and get disadvantages against natives - but you don't get anything in return - and endgame is not only far away, but the Hybrids also get their bonus for the endgame (huge, cheap, efficient empires).

However, playing the Hybrid strategy, I didn't feel "overpowered", it flowed well and was fun - it was also nice seeing things fitting together (small bases, upping your planetvalue and so forth), so I don't think it needs to be toned down - but Terraformers need something to compensate to reach similar awesomeness. In a way, Terraformers get punishment for following their way, but only regular growth as reward. Hybrids get regular growth (but more energy than production-focussed) and on top of that a chock full of goodies.

As for enclosed biosphere... it feels bland, basically the route you take when you start in a terrible area. It doesn't really has a strategy or a long-term plan, from what I see so far.

EDIT: Reading over it again, I probably sounded far more dramatic than it is - but still, I feel Hybrid is a more powerful strategy because of these points - though the effect is probably a bit exaggerated by the lack of AI war declarations - which frees up more resources for growth - though the Terraformers probably also benefit from that as they can throw more at the planet (poor Miriam in this game, she's getting *pounded*!).

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

1. I get a CTD when I load up Datalinks from the main menu and hover over certain icons, e.g. the tech prerequisite icon for Autarky.

I'm afraid I don't know what could be your problem.

Okay so that Carrier promotion bug came up again. I have attached the saved game. use the carrier in the Hive capital to kill the isle of the deep (i think that is the unit, it will attack the proper one anyhow).

I don't get any new promotions when attacking that IoD.
Could a third person please check what result they get?
Do you have UAC/User Account Control enabled by any chance?

And, wow, a hybrid strategy is overwhelmingly easier to play and massively powerful! After some thinking,

Hmm, it could be interesting for comparison purposes to gather some data how much research and minerals a hybrid and terraform strategy produce on turn 100, 200 & 300.

 

[deadliver]

I'm afraid I don't know what could be your problem.



I don't get any new promotions when attacking that IoD.
Could a third person please check what result they get?
Do you have UAC/User Account Control enabled by any chance?



Hmm, it could be interesting for comparison purposes to gather some data how much research and minerals a hybrid and terraform strategy produce on turn 100, 200 & 300.

Yes I do, are there UAC issues specifically regarding Planetfall cos it doesn't affect my other mods (except for blocking creation of the ini file that is).

 

[Maniac]

UAC causes problems with Civ4 in general, not just Planetfall. Eg both FfH2 and Planetfall players have reported the game always crash when they want to simply start the mod if UAc is enabled.

Anyway, there's a simple way to find out. Disable UAC, load your own save, and see what happens.

 

[deadliver]

Would there be any way to allow drop troopers to drop from Drop Ships?

edit: I turned off UAC and still get the same result from the carrier vs. IoD.

 

[Lord Tirian]

...but Terraformers need something to compensate to reach similar awesomeness.

I had a little idea - probably not a good one, but I thought I should just put it out, maybe it can serve as inspiration for something.

Give Terraformers the ability to build and use roads. The roads should only work for units controlled by a faction which uses the Terraforming civic and only if the road is not in enemy territory.

Advantages

• This would be a huge incentive to go Terraformer (just like the positive planetvalue side-effects for Hybrid)
• Fits the theme - mowing down fungus, flattening mounds, hills and so forth to built stuff you want - and the lack of roads marks the Hybrids as well, it would feel "more nature-like".
• Compensates for fungal blooms a bit - because they are better at organising their defences and rallying a large force at a point to deal with the blooms/natives.
• Reinforces the underlying industry theme and Earth allusions - because roads, highways and so forth are so very important to our live and productivity here.

Disadvantage

• What to do with Magtubes - they would require rethinking or restriction to Terraformers.
• Benefit may not be big enough? Of course, would require lots of testing.
• Changes one of Planetfall's design principles - equal movement for attacking and defending forces - this would also give Terraformers a big defensive edge against the other factions.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

How about:
1) Terraformers can move one plot further than others on MagTubes
2) MagTubes can't be built on Xenofungus.

Much easier to implement.

 

[slugwalk]

I had a little idea - probably not a good one, but I thought I should just put it out, maybe it can serve as inspiration for something.

Give Terraformers the ability to build and use roads. The roads should only work for units controlled by a faction which uses the Terraforming civic and only if the road is not in enemy territory.

I agree, it's a good idea and would help, but I don't feel that it's enough. I think the FC penalty to farm growth should be reduced, or the terraformers still need a greater bonus to farm growth. What could also help is penalizing the Hybrids more. Perhaps Hybrid could have penalties to mines (no bonus production), and Boreholes (no bonus production or energy). I think this would work better than preventing them from building them, as then the player couldn't build them then switch civics to Hybrid. The way I see it, it just doesn't make sense that the Terraformers should be able to get away with using mines and boreholes.

 

[slugwalk]

How about:
1) Terraformers can move one plot further than others on MagTubes
2) MagTubes can't be built on Xenofungus.

Much easier to implement.

Magtubes come too late for this to matter as much as allowing roads early.

 

[GeoModder]

What if terraformers from a Terraformer faction could move one plot further? It would be like the Indian worker.
Oh, I forgot, formers already ignore terrain movement costs IIRC.

 

[Maniac]

Magtubes come too late for this to matter as much as allowing roads early.

Terraforming is a level 4 tech. If the problem is in the early game, then giving extra boni to the Terraforming civic won't help.

Anyway, I just gave Bunkers a 50% combat bonus against Native Life, and let the Perimeter Defense automatically create a Bunker. Let's see what those nasty worms think of that, huh!

 

[Maniac]

edit: I turned off UAC and still get the same result from the carrier vs. IoD.

Hopefully some other people, both with and without Vista, will try it out and see what their result is.

In the meanwhile, a test you can do: go into the worldbuilder, remove the empath song promotion from the carrier, and then attack. Does the carrier still get promotions for free?

 

[deadliver]

Hopefully some other people, both with and without Vista, will try it out and see what their result is.

In the meanwhile, a test you can do: go into the worldbuilder, remove the empath song promotion from the carrier, and then attack. Does the carrier still get promotions for free?

Yes, it still gets the promotions

 

[Lord Tirian]

Hopefully some other people, both with and without Vista, will try it out and see what their result is.

Just did that - not using Vista here - and nothing happens - but I also found out that the game seems to use "random seed on reload", because sometimes the carrier dies, sometimes not (when I use it as the first unit to attack the stack of natives).

Cheers, LT.