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v21 bugs and crashes

Discussion in 'Bugs and Crashes' started by Dancing Hoskuld, Feb 19, 2012.

  1. AIAndy

    AIAndy Deity

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    Both of these work for me.
    The common thing about them is that the input from both of these is handled in Python (actually in the same file that displays them which is the main interface screen file).
    Any Python error in the logs?
     
  2. DRJ

    DRJ Hedonist

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    sry guys, quoting myself as I got no answer and the post seemed to have drowned... just wanna know if it's possible to improve the automated city production to not build military units and/or specialize the city production to certain categories...

     
  3. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    I had a great game going then poof, CTD, attached is savedgame i believe 1 turn before CTD and the minidump)

    Latest SVN and just clicked on next turn . . .

    fixed below
     
  4. AIAndy

    AIAndy Deity

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    While certainly possible (and a useful feature) it is a matter of effort and where best to spend it at the moment. There is a lot on my list and only limited time.
     
  5. DRJ

    DRJ Hedonist

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    Ok, I understand that, after all what you coders provide is above what I ever expected, but with that speed as a possibility to actually realize potential progress, comes of course more and more ideas that articulate themselves out of the sudden... :)

    So thanks for recognizing the idea, just wanted to say that this could make a lot of players that otherwise pick every building for every city in every turn save a lot of time, that could be used for even more palytesting that would return more ideas and therefore even more work for you to do. Dang! To avoid this, I think you need to program build the Great (Fire)Wall of ideas :D
     
  6. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    It's certainly possible. The issue is that it falls between DLL and Python work for a suitable UI. I could easily add SDK code to provide a filter for what the automated govenor considers building in a city, but I don't know how to hook it up to the UI properly, so I'd need someone else to volunteer for that aspect...
     
  7. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    Ok, I see the problem from the minidump. Shouldn't be hard to fix - will make it my top priority when I'm done with work and able to get to C2C development later today. Expect a fix early afternoon US time.
     
  8. AIAndy

    AIAndy Deity

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    If you do the DLL part I have no problem hooking it to Python UI.
     
  9. DRJ

    DRJ Hedonist

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    :clap: :worship: :clap:

    Edit: to get some more content in this post: I just found out that with 30000 espionage points (on GEM at Eternity game speed), which translates into 4800 in my game due to different boni (see screenie), I can take my big neighbour into anarchy for 24 turns?? With this, plus the rebel aid and the city revolts, you can bring down even much more advanced civs in no time!
    I think its gamebreaking, regarding the fact that if I relied totally onto diplomacy and built only spies and had the slider on 100% espionage all the time, I could a) produce ~6800 points a turn, which means, translated to the actual points I have to pay, I could do this every turn, plus stealing a tech and creating rebels... Well I know it's no bug but I think the value for spreading anarchy is much too low atm at least at eternity/deity. Next game I am gonna play as deceiveful Japan on this GEM, I'm happily looking forward to that... :D

    This game is nice, Getting so much cultures from Europe as Germany... tech leader was Australia but suddenly they stopped teching fast and I took the lead, due to some great people shortcuts (Germany is philosophical), pacifism helped as well as the other GP boni of the civil civics, specialization on rare techs to trade, and last but not least the enzyclopedia, which even takes me further away (bug report: prevent that PROJECT for working for the civ if the civ is #1 in points, please!! - with a twist maybe: you as player could decide to whom it shall it be gifted -- a wonder gift, much like the Amber Room
    Spoiler :


    that Germany gave to Russia... which, by the way, is a new idea I think: imagine gifting wonders as a concept feature...and as new content possibilities: anyone know a of a wonder a civ gifted to another or that was produced in an other country but made impact in another? I am sure there are quite a lot, those could be like a new category: great wonders, national wonders and diplomatic wonders (that also increase trade and shared cultures, finally simulating some immigration layer as a possibility... Is the Tapestry of Bayeux in the game right now, by the way? I saw it in some mods, I believe...)

    Edit2: teach the AI to start playing dirty.. they use espionage not very often, I only got some techs stolen and some mines destroyed, no anarchy, no unrest, no rebels, no assassinations when I massed some great people over some time in a city, for a GA... --which dont have to be in the same city to start it, I know -- but couldn't it be implemented to be that way...that they have to stay in there for at least 15 turns to "individually activate and unlock the golden age chamber teleporters" (ok I am already beamed a bit hehe) and the AI could detect that and try to assassinate those locations? would be fun to make espionage much more dangerous^^ and GA -of which you can put one after the other after some time- much harder to achieve...)

    Edit3: regarding the anarchy spread option: does it work if the AI civ is in golden age?
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    I think it would be a bit harsh for the Encyclopedia (which is VERY expensive and which you can't apply hurry via caravan line units towards) simply stopped working when you hit the tech lead (if that why not various wonders too?). However, I think it would be ok (and actually rather nice) if the bonus from the encylopedia varied depending on where you are in the tech race (5% if leader, +1% for each place behind to max of 15% say). We don't have the means to do this currently, but it would be possible to add more complex dynamic modifier schemes like this (and use them on other buildings too potentially) if we wanted to.

    I'll leave others to comment on the espionage costs as I have no specific opinion on how to fix that. I have verified that it DOES scale with game speed however, so the fact you are on eternity is not really relevant I don't think.
     
  11. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    I was unable to reproduce the crash from the save game, but I understand the cause from the minidump, so I have pushed a fix to SVN. Please confirm that this is working for you.
     
  12. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    I just started taking a look at this and I find myself confused! I never automate anything personally so I'm learning as I go a bit here, however, so far as I can see:
    1. The automated city govenor routine pretty much NEVER chooses units (apart from workers)
    2. The UI already has selectors to emphasise food, hammer, research etc. which sound pretty much like what you are asking for
    So, can you be more precise about what is wrong with the current UI mechanism for setting the city automation preferences (the icons below the 'turn on production automation' icon)? Also can you post a save game where an automated city is producing units like archers and so on for me to look at?
     
  13. Stormwind

    Stormwind King

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    There are actually 2 different governor AIs. The player one and the AI one. The player one is horrible (and as noticed doesn't ever build units [and can only be allowed to build workers/work boats, IIRC]) but can be disabled in the civ game options, so that the player actually uses the AI governor. The AI governor is better but still has many flaws. To name a few:

    -builds to many units
    -build the "give gold for increased empire destability"-building far too often because it probably only sees the +gold
    -builds gold/research even when there are suitable buildings that would in the long term improve the city very much (best example would be sewer system, it often never gets build, but is important for all the "housing"-buildings)
     
  14. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    Ah. You want automated cities using the AI routines to respond to the preference UI that already effects the govenor choices?? That makes sense now.

    @DRJ - can you confirm that this is what you are doing also?

    On the AI selections:
    1. It's meant for the AI, so it needs to build more units than a human would because otherwise it'll get crushed in wars due to inability to use them as efficiently. To some extent if you elect to choose to use the AI govenor that's part of what you get. However, I see no reason it cannot be made to use the preferences set (in the UI that effects the govenor choices) which wil help (but won't eliminate unit building enirely)
    2. Specific feedback of observations on what the AI production choices get wrong is VERY valuable, so thanks for the ones you mentioned here. In regard to the specifics, the AI does take instability into account (if REV is on) but may not give it enough weight currently. It weighs it more highly if you are unstable than if you are not BTW. The AI also looks at what a building enables and includes a discounted value of those down-stream building's values in the root buildings evaluation. Again it may not weigh this highly enough however.
    I'll take a look at the sewer system example specifically, because it's a very good one.
     
  15. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    Yes, so far so good, and thx for the FAST response.;)
     
  16. BlueGenie

    BlueGenie Emperor

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    What about the problem with Nautilus that I posted in the "main" crashes and errors, or that one is no longer valid and I should post it here?

    Cheers
     
  17. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    Ok, major WOW discovery here. I was wrong that the AI looked ahead down building dependency chains! Working on adding that now.

    It DOES look ahead down free-building chains, but not down regular required-to-have dependency chains currently.

    Edit - even worse, the current evaluation doesn't take account of buildings being replaced, so it sees the replacing build at full value, regardless of how small the incremental upgrade actually is! This probably causes the AI to traverse through every type of hut as it discovers the techs!
     
  18. Stormwind

    Stormwind King

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    Just saw the Sniper promotion available to ships, this looks slightly odd although there are known to be shipboard marines and marksmen aboard ships.

    Also: animals spawned by the Montreal Biodome can't move, can't be butchered and currently seem to be of no use at all ?
     
  19. DRJ

    DRJ Hedonist

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    Sorry if I wasn't able to make my suggestion clear, english is not my native language:

    What I thought was that if every building would get a "category mark," like:
    food, production, science, commerce/gold, military, wonder,
    a filter might help the player who hits a shortcut* to only build buildings of that category (maybe sorted after their hammer cost or by a calculation of costs/benefits)

    *for instance alt+1 for food, alt+2 for production and so on...

    Maybe it could even be combined like
    build all building types except food: alt+7
    build all building types except military: alt+8
    etc...


    This way I could automate a city but wouldn't have to deal with the unpromoted troops the regular AI routine gov would usually spam.
    I really dislike useless military units as they cost too much maintance and the lost hammers could be better invested in other buildings.

    Regarding this problem: if I have a city not directly at the border I tend to put only one old unit in it - I need my troops elsewhere more. But: AI city gov then doesn't stop building troops as long as not X? archers/rifles... are in the city. This sucks! I simply can't afford it to automate! If I activate AI city gov as human, not as AI, I really don't want that, and honestly, what other player would want to?

    Btw. All the instrument buildings are WAY overpowered... One thing I found that the Jain and Andean monastery gave negative science modifiers after discovery of scientific theory while other monasteries still worked fully functional furtheron.
     
  20. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    Ah, it's going to be a bit harder to achieve what you want, but I think what I can do will go some way towards it. Specifically, I propose:

    If the govenor is turned on and at least one of the focus icons is selected (food, hammers, science, etc) then the city will ONLY build things that match the selected icons (and never build units). If you select nothing you get the AI build (including units), but if you select food, hammers and science (say) you'll get buildings that contribute to any of those, but no units. You can select whatever subset you like.

    What I cannot do (easily - would amount to rewriting a govenor routine instead of using the AI routine tweaked slightly), is change the order that the AI would want to build things in within the selected categories (e.g - if it wants to build domuses before sail makers say, when hammers are selected, that's too bad if you prefer the opposite order). However, if you do see it building in an obviously out-of-sensible-order (given what you have selected) then you've probably found a bug in the AI routine anyway, so we should get it fixed.

    Would that at least go some way towards meeting your requirements?
     

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