Vassals

[Putmalk]

Just wanted to say welcome back Putmalk! These new changes to the Vassal system look great

Thank you!

Fleshing out the vassal tax system / getting it implemented right now. Understand that vassalage is a team-oriented concept: if Player 1 makes Player 2 a vassal, then all members in Player 2's team becomes a vassal of Player 1's team. This actually makes this kind confusing to design for, but I've come up with this:

• Unfortunately, it does not appear as if giving gifts to vassals (i.e. "negative tax") will be able to happen. After doing some thinking on it, it introduces a very weird case where you can actually give gifts to multiple vassals exceeding 100% of the Master's income, breaking everything. To keep it understandable, you can only tax a vassal from 0 to 30%. (0 will provide a positive diplomatic modifier)
• Taxes are assigned on an per-player basis. The Master Team (all players collectively) tax individual players in the Vassal. So you can tax Vassal Civ A 15% and Vassal Civ B 30%, each incurring their own separate diplomatic effects.
• Taxes are collected and then evenly distributed amongst the Masters. This does have the side effect of meaning larger teams collect less from taxes, but it seems to make sense.
• Vassals will still incur a gold maintenance (right now, thinking 2 GPT per city) which will make taxation somewhat of a necessity.
• Taxes can only be set once every 16 turns (Quick), 25 turns (Standard), 37 turns (Epic), 75 turns (Marathon). If there are Humans on a team, then AI teammates will not even consider making this choice. If it's an AI-only team, they will decide as a collective (the first AI in the team will average out their feelings toward the target civ)

Let me know what you think.

 

[Wario Mario]

How come Map Trading was moved to Military Science and Tech Trading moved to Replaceable Parts?

I don't know the reason why they were moved, but if a debate is going to start over this I'd like to throw my support behind having them happen sooner (I personally move them to compass and education, respectively).

Just FYI, Vassal AIs auto-switch to their master's ideology already.

G

Unfortunately, it does not appear as if giving gifts to vassals (i.e. "negative tax") will be able to happen. After doing some thinking on it, it introduces a very weird case where you can actually give gifts to multiple vassals exceeding 100% of the Master's income, breaking everything. To keep it understandable, you can only tax a vassal from 0 to 30%. (0 will provide a positive diplomatic modifier)

Could the negative tax stop at -5% (giving a total range of -5 to 30)? That way, the only way you could give more than 100% of your total income is if you have 21 vassals, and the only way to have 21 vassals is to have vassalized everyone in a 22 civ game.

At any rate, your system sounds awesome.

 

[Aristos]

Are Wars of Liberation a possibility (including AI proficiency)? Defeating a master civ, and liberation of its vassal(s) as peace deal item, I mean...

Now THAT would be amazing.

 

[Putmalk]

Are Wars of Liberation a possibility (including AI proficiency)? Defeating a master civ, and liberation of its vassal(s) as peace deal item, I mean...

Now THAT would be amazing.

It would appear that that was added in by the CPP team! You can select "Liberation" as a peace deal item.

 

[Aristos]

It would appear that that was added in by the CPP team! You can select "Liberation" as a peace deal item.

Really? All these months playing CBP and I never noticed...???

I blame G, he is too fast in spittin' out those betabetabetas, I cannot possibly finish a single game, not even close...

 

[Wario Mario]

Really? All these months playing CBP and I never noticed...???

I blame G, he is too fast in spittin' out those betabetabetas, I cannot possibly finish a single game, not even close...

Nice to know I'm not the only one making these mistakes

 

[KungCheops]

This is probably out of place and completely insane, but with this sophisticated vassal system, maybe the civ 4 colonies system could be added as well? I mean the ability to release a part of your empire into a vassalled heavily taxed new civ?

I mean I personally never got that thing to work properly in civ 4, and I never saw the point of it at all, but it looked really cool.

I had forgotten how much I missed colonies.

 

[Senteliks]

Really? All these months playing CBP and I never noticed...???

I blame G, he is too fast in spittin' out those betabetabetas, I cannot possibly finish a single game, not even close...

Well, technically you can ignore "betabetabetas", unless there is a game breaking bug, with a version you play, this was case even before, when new versions weren't frequent, a.k.a when new "beta" model, wasn't a thing, so unless you were really inpatient to complete game to the end, you could/can do it. Liberation is for quite some time, implemented feature.

 

[Putmalk]

Today I worked on implementing support for taxation (at least in terms of being able to set the value and lock it in for x turns. Also implemented all the front end code for making it work.

Before changing



After changing



What remains to be done (a lot)

• Front-end bugs
• Completion of Management Screen (need ideas for how to fill out the remaining space)
• Display of Vassal's current opinion of you
• Gold calculations with new taxation
• Vassal Overview when you are a Vassal
• Display number of vassals you control + world controls on Vassal Overview
• Add diplomatic modifier related to vassal tax rate
• Add AI diplomacy response after you've changed taxes (happy you've lowered, unhappy you've raised)
• AI understanding of how to tax you
• AI valuation of how much to tax you
• AI understanding how to liberate a vassal of theirs
• AI valuation of how much it wants to liberate you
• Probably a lot more I haven't thought about yet

Whew...what a weekend of productivity! I got a lot done. My development will be slower during the week.

 

[Gazebo]

Today I worked on implementing support for taxation (at least in terms of being able to set the value and lock it in for x turns. Also implemented all the front end code for making it work.

Before changing



After changing



What remains to be done (a lot)

• Front-end bugs
• Completion of Management Screen (need ideas for how to fill out the remaining space)
• Display of Vassal's current opinion of you
• Gold calculations with new taxation
• Vassal Overview when you are a Vassal
• Display number of vassals you control + world controls on Vassal Overview
• Add diplomatic modifier related to vassal tax rate
• Add AI diplomacy response after you've changed taxes (happy you've lowered, unhappy you've raised)
• AI understanding of how to tax you
• AI valuation of how much to tax you
• AI understanding how to liberate a vassal of theirs
• AI valuation of how much it wants to liberate you
• Probably a lot more I haven't thought about yet

Whew...what a weekend of productivity! I got a lot done. My development will be slower during the week.

Looking good! But...

'Unforgivable' is the word you are looking for.

G

 

[Putmalk]

Looking good! But...

'Unforgivable' is the word you are looking for.

G

Ahahah but that is a test string used for demonstration purposes only and not a finalized update. That text in particular is static while everything is dynamic.

 

[Tarzan737]

When do u think we can have a first try??


im waiting

quit the job and wife

 

[Putmalk]

When do u think we can have a first try??


im waiting

quit the job and wife

I was hoping to finish implementation by the end of February and start rolling out beta testing for both CP and CBP I'm beginning of March. So I'd figure mid March for a release as a guesstimate?

 

[Putmalk]

So the weekend is here. This week I managed to get a few unpolished systems in place: taxation affecting GPT, and vassal treatment, a diplomatic gauge of how your vassal feels you've treated them.

Current modifiers:

- Tax rate
- Protection score
- # of times you've demanded from them

Do you guys have any ideas of what else constitutes "treatment of a vassal" and how I might add some positive ways of improving their opinion of you?

Thanks.

 

[Gazebo]

So the weekend is here. This week I managed to get a few unpolished systems in place: taxation affecting GPT, and vassal treatment, a diplomatic gauge of how your vassal feels you've treated them.

Current modifiers:

- Tax rate
- Protection score
- # of times you've demanded from them

Do you guys have any ideas of what else constitutes "treatment of a vassal" and how I might add some positive ways of improving their opinion of you?

Thanks.

What goes into protection score?

As far as opinion is concerned, you could allow WC alignments to help (i.e. if you vote what your vassal votes it makes him/her happy).

You could also have the destruction of barbarians in vassal territory as a positive.

G

 

[Putmalk]

What goes into protection score?

As far as opinion is concerned, you could allow WC alignments to help (i.e. if you vote what your vassal votes it makes him/her happy).

You could also have the destruction of barbarians in vassal territory as a positive.

G

Killing units in vassals territory or near their cities, or allowing them to lose units in their territory.

 

[Gazebo]

Killing units in vassals territory or near their cities, or allowing them to lose units in their territory.

Makes sense. You could give an increased bonus to vassals for trade routes you send to their land. Also any deals you make with them that are favorable for them.

G

 

[Putmalk]

All diplomacy texts currently WIP

Spoiler :

AI responds to your manipulation of the taxes. Today I want to make notifications for when taxes are ready to be changed.

 

[Gazebo]

All diplomacy texts currently WIP

Spoiler :

AI responds to your manipulation of the taxes. Today I want to make notifications for when taxes are ready to be changed.

Nice. For an added bit of flavor, you could make the notifications era-specific. You might also consider using the DiploBalance personality modifier to make the text more or less 'liberty' oriented. Just a fun little flavor thought.

G

 

[ExpiredReign]

Yes they are very nice. Perhaps spoiler tags around images though might make the forum easier to navigate?

Just in case the humour in my post isn't clear enough, I'm not taking a shot at you, just a reminder.