Vassals

[Wario Mario]

Just some random ideas I had...

A master should be able to force a vassal to convert to their ideology. But try to imagine the USA letting a vassal be communist, or the USSR letting a vassal be capitalist. Likewise, a founder of a religion should be able to force their vassals to convert.

Both master and vassal should automatically have embassies in each other's nations. Defensive pact should be considered as active during vassalage (after all, vassalage should supersede Defensive pact).

Anything that normally requires a DoF (city trading, research agreements [if enabled], etc) to your vassal should be allowed without a DoF. They should still subject to the normal trading rules however (the vassal still has to agree to the trades).

Cities sold (or outright gifted) to a vassal *by their master* should be exempt from the 300% population rule (but NOT the 60% of cities rule). After all, they only grew because of their master.

A peaceful vassal should be allowed to leave at any time once the 50 (effected by game speed?) turns are up, like a regular deal.

It should be possible for an extremely happy vassal to reach the requirements to be allowed to break free and decide not to. This happened in both civ 4 and the current CBP (vassals that like you will actually be upset if you propose the WC resolution that liberates all vassals).

The master should be able to forcibly demand techs the vassal has learned [assuming tech trading hasn't been disabled] and tick the vassal off. Likewise, the master should be able to give the vassal techs the master has learned and please the vassal.

The option to enable human vassalage should be inverted to disable human vassalage. That is, the player can become a vassal unless specifically disabled.

I figure if I give out enough ideas someone will like at least one

 

[Putmalk]

Update on the Vassal Overview. Tech progress bar!

On Management Screen, I will most likely have those buttons to force Ideology Switch (not so much religious switch, because I don't know how a mechanic like that could possibly occur).

 

[Atlas627]

I recommend against sliders. Enabling each percentage point is probably too much micromanagement, and the AI might also waste its cooldown by shifting by a point or two and then locking itself out of the big adjustments when necessary.

 

[Putmalk]

I recommend against sliders. Enabling each percentage point is probably too much micromanagement, and the AI might also waste its cooldown by shifting by a point or two and then locking itself out of the big adjustments when necessary.

What would you suggest? A + / - type interface (like Civ 4)?

 

[sjefferson23]

Nah, I think of it like this: 50 turns to force a commitment by the Master to honor the vassalage, and not abuse it for a cheap diplomatic boost (because liberation will grant you a large diplomatic modifier with the civ you liberated). I'm trying to make it as not abusable as possible.

Sounds great, I hadn't even thought of the diplo mod .

 

[Atlas627]

What would you suggest? A + / - type interface (like Civ 4)?

The interface style isn't the problem (though I do think that sliders kinda suck unless each "notch" is significant), its the degrees of freedom. Most of CiV seems to already use increments of 5%, so perhaps try that and see how it goes? You could do that in a slider if you like, but I know someone would get frustrated if they accidentally move it too far to the side and hit accept too fast. Or if they move the slider to some other position in the same value and lose their cooldown. +/- buttons would work fine if you have 5% increments imo, though I guess if the default is 0 and you want to set it to 50% right out of the gate that could be tedious.

 

[Putmalk]

The interface style isn't the problem (though I do think that sliders kinda suck unless each "notch" is significant), its the degrees of freedom. Most of CiV seems to already use increments of 5%, so perhaps try that and see how it goes? You could do that in a slider if you like, but I know someone would get frustrated if they accidentally move it too far to the side and hit accept too fast. Or if they move the slider to some other position in the same value and lose their cooldown. +/- buttons would work fine if you have 5% increments imo, though I guess if the default is 0 and you want to set it to 50% right out of the gate that could be tedious.

This is what I want to do anyway. I'll have to floor it per value of 5. (keep in mind, a lot of the stuff in the screenshot isn't functional yet).

 

[Wario Mario]

Update on the Vassal Overview. Tech progress bar!

On Management Screen, I will most likely have those buttons to force Ideology Switch (not so much religious switch, because I don't know how a mechanic like that could possibly occur).

Awesome!

Also, I'm a bozo - I meant to say masters should be allowed to use inquisitors in vassal cities (potentially ticking off the vassal, especially if they're a founder). I must've been thinking of civ4, when there were state religions.

 

[Gazebo]

Update on the Vassal Overview. Tech progress bar!

On Management Screen, I will most likely have those buttons to force Ideology Switch (not so much religious switch, because I don't know how a mechanic like that could possibly occur).

Just FYI, Vassal AIs auto-switch to their master's ideology already.

G

 

[Putmalk]

Just FYI, Vassal AIs auto-switch to their master's ideology already.

G

Well look at that. Thanks for the heads up

 

[Gazebo]

Well look at that. Thanks for the heads up

Yep. Feel free to ping me on any other changes you might notice.
Also, I noticed in the latest lua screen that faith wasn't listed as a 'vassal siphon' yield the code is there for it, if you want to add that.

G

 

[Atlas627]

This is what I want to do anyway. I'll have to floor it per value of 5. (keep in mind, a lot of the stuff in the screenshot isn't functional yet).

Ah. Well I think the best interface would be a +5/+15/-5/-15 set of buttons or something similar. I havent taken a look at the actual features you want to do, but I'll do that when I get a free moment.

 

[Putmalk]

Ah. Well I think the best interface would be a +5/+15/-5/-15 set of buttons or something similar. I havent taken a look at the actual features you want to do, but I'll do that when I get a free moment.

Taxation is in the OP

I've been chugging along at this overview, this is the latest version.

 

[darko82]

Taxation is in the OP

I've been chugging along at this overview, this is the latest version.

This one looks neat Also, maybe, you could add some indicators for whom (which side) is the plus and minus, science, faith or any other statistics etc.

 

[Putmalk]

This one looks neat Also, maybe, you could add some indicators for whom is the plus and minus, science, faith etc.

Hmmm, what do you mean?

 

[darko82]

Hmmm, what do you mean?

You could include all the current advantages and disadvantages for each side in the statistics.

 

[Putmalk]

Yep. Feel free to ping me on any other changes you might notice.
Also, I noticed in the latest lua screen that faith wasn't listed as a 'vassal siphon' yield the code is there for it, if you want to add that.

G

How come Map Trading was moved to Military Science and Tech Trading moved to Replaceable Parts?

 

[Putmalk]

My last update for the night:

 

[Funak]

This is probably out of place and completely insane, but with this sophisticated vassal system, maybe the civ 4 colonies system could be added as well? I mean the ability to release a part of your empire into a vassalled heavily taxed new civ?

I mean I personally never got that thing to work properly in civ 4, and I never saw the point of it at all, but it looked really cool.

 

[Damirith]

Just wanted to say welcome back Putmalk! These new changes to the Vassal system look great