Vatican Formally Recognizes State of Palestine

[Ajidica]

VATICAN CITY — The Vatican on Friday signed a treaty with the “state of Palestine,” a development that the church hopes will lead to improved relations between Israel and the Palestinians.

The accord, the result of 15 years of negotiations, covers “essential aspects of the life and activity of the Catholic Church in the State of Palestine,” the Vatican said in a statement.

The Vatican’s foreign minister, Archbishop Paul Gallagher, said the agreement could be a “stimulus to bringing a definitive end to the longstanding Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which continues to cause suffering for both parties.”

He also called for the two countries to take “courageous decisions” so that the “much desired two-state solution may become a reality as soon as possible.”

The Vatican said last month that it would sign the agreement, which Archbishop Gallagher described as offering “a good example of dialogue and cooperation” to other countries in the Middle East, where some Christians have suffered persecution.

Archbishop Gallagher and Foreign Minister Riad al-Malki of the Palestinian Authority signed the treaty at a ceremony in the Vatican.

The Israeli Foreign Ministry expressed its disappointment on Friday, calling the signing of a treaty “a hasty step” that hurt the prospects of peace.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/27/world/middleeast/vatican-palestinian-state.html?_r=1

Thoughts?
Does this, as suggested by the Israeli Foreign Ministry, "hurt" the peace process? Is the peace process even alive at this point? Will the Catholic Church deploy its not insignificant moral influence in criticizing the Israeli government for its stance on a Palestinian state?
Is this a precursor to the eventual reestablishment of the Kingdom of Jerusalem?

 

[Arakhor]

It just sounds like yet another reason for alleged Catholic Republicans to criticise the Pope for having opinions contrary to their own.

 

[Antilogic]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/27/world/middleeast/vatican-palestinian-state.html?_r=1

Thoughts?
Does this, as suggested by the Israeli Foreign Ministry, "hurt" the peace process? Is the peace process even alive at this point? Will the Catholic Church deploy its not insignificant moral influence in criticizing the Israeli government for its stance on a Palestinian state?
Is this a precursor to the eventual reestablishment of the Kingdom of Jerusalem?

Good news, on the contrary it's required for it, nope, maybe, likely not. Respectively.

 

[Phrossack]

Israel, or at least Netanyahu et al., do not want peace. They want the status quo--tacit permission to intrude upon Palestinian land with illegal settlements indefinitely. Palestinian attacks do not even slow them down. Any Israeli attempt at "peace" talks is done in bad faith.

 

[Tahuti]

For some reason, I doubt this will convince the Israelis to embrace Catholicism.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Is the peace process even alive at this point?

Well, all who walk with Christ are not dead, but live eternal but...yes.

Is this a precursor to the eventual reestablishment of the Kingdom of Jerusalem?

Deus Vault.

 

[Domen]

For some reason, I doubt this will convince the Israelis to embrace Catholicism.

Israel has not yet learned how to be multicultural - Catholics and Muslims are gonna be at the center of that! Catholics and Muslims will be resented because of their leading role. But without that leading role and without that transformation, Israel will not survive:


Link to video.

 

[Tahuti]

Israel has not yet learned how to be multicultural - Catholics and Muslims are gonna be at the center of that! Catholics and Muslims will be resented because of their leading role.

Catholics and Muslims both have a universalist worldview inherent to their beliefs. At the very least, that universalism shall have to be supressed, if they wish to co-exist with other religious and ethnic groups. Believing that those who do not share your beliefs are to be eternally damned is not a good starting point for co-existence.

 

[Domen]

Believing that those who do not share your beliefs are to be eternally damned is not a good starting point for co-existence.

Jews not only believe that all Non-Jews will be damned, but also that there is enough room for just 144,000 Jews in Heaven:

(1) Revelation 7:3-8

saying: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the servants of God on their foreheads.” And I heard the number of the sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed,
12,000 from the tribe of Reuben,
12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
12,000 from the tribe of Asher,
12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali,
12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
12,000 from the tribe of Simeon,
12,000 from the tribe of Levi,
12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun,
12,000 from the tribe of Joseph,
12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.

So only 144,000 of Jews will be redeemed, while all the remaining Jews, as well as all of Non-Jews, will be eternally damned.

Moreover, if you are no longer a male virgin, then don't even think that you can join these 144,000:

(3) Revelation 14:3-5

And they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. For it is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, 5 and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.

So only 144,000 Jewish male virgins who never lied... :/

 

[Kyriakos]

Jews not only believe that all Non-Jews will be damned, but also that there is enough room for just 144,000 Jews in Heaven:



So only 144,000 of Jews will be redeemed, while all the remaining Jews, as well as all of Non-Jews, will be eternally damned.

Moreover, if you are no longer a male virgin, then don't even think that you can join these 144,000:


So only 144,000 Jewish male virgins... :/

Maybe they have rabbis who claim that it is 144.000 times x, with x being some sort of secret number, likely surreal or whatever

Still allowing ritual circumcision is another bad case of rabbis.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Now they have gone and done it. Expect Chuck Norris to show up any minute to remind them that the US doesn't kowtow to any Palestinian lovers.

That they are literally creating wars which threaten to destroy the entire world by being advocates of peace and rational foreign policy.

 

[classical_hero]

So they have accepted Jordan?

 

[Tahuti]

Jews not only believe that all Non-Jews will be damned, but also that there is enough room for just 144,000 Jews in Heaven

Wait, you cite the New Testament for what Jews believe?

Did you know atheists vow the deaths of unbelievers? The Qu'ran said so!

 

[Kyriakos]

Wait, you cite the New Testament for what Jews believe?

Did you know atheists vow the deaths of unbelievers? The Qu'ran said so!

So you opt to go all out for the Old Testament? (cause the deity there is a bit crueller at any rate)

 

[Domen]

Is this a precursor to the eventual reestablishment of the Kingdom of Jerusalem?

Nope.

But we can reestablish the Principality of Antioch, the County of Edessa, the County of Tripoli and the Kingdom of Lesser Armenia.

All that needs to be done is to create a Christian equivalent of ISIS, start a crusade against ISIS, and conquer their lands.

PS:

I suggest we send a Children's Crusade and a People's Crusade first, in order to weaken ISIS before the main invasion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_Crusade

Maybe when ISIS will see a group of 30,000 children, they will start crying and convert peacefully to Christianity:
(the probability that this will happen is small, but it is worth trying perhaps, what do you think?)

(...) A boy began preaching in either France or Germany claiming that he had been visited by Jesus and told to lead a Crusade to peacefully convert Muslims to Christianity. Through a series of supposed portents and miracles he gained a considerable following, including possibly as many as 30,000 children. (...)

Then let's send the Unemployed People's Crusade against the ISIS, thus solving the problem of unemployment:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Crusade

(...) A charismatic monk and powerful orator named Peter the Hermit of Amiens was the spiritual leader of the movement. He was known for riding a donkey and dressing in simple clothing. He had vigorously preached the crusade throughout northern France and Flanders. He claimed to have been appointed to preach by Christ himself (and supposedly had a divine letter to prove it), and it is likely that some of his followers thought he, not Urban, was the true originator of the crusading idea. It is often believed that Peter's army was a band of illiterate, incompetent peasants who had no idea where they were going, and who believed that every city of any size they encountered on their way was Jerusalem itself; this may have been true for some, but the long tradition for pilgrimages to Jerusalem ensured that the location and distance of the city were well known. While the majority were unskilled in fighting, there were some well-trained minor knights leading them (...)

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Jews not only believe that all Non-Jews will be damned, but also that there is enough room for just 144,000 Jews in Heaven:



So only 144,000 of Jews will be redeemed, while all the remaining Jews, as well as all of Non-Jews, will be eternally damned.

Moreover, if you are no longer a male virgin, then don't even think that you can join these 144,000:



So only 144,000 Jewish male virgins who never lied... :/

Are you confusing Jews with Jehovah's Witnesses?

Jews of course reject the Revelation of Saint John the Divine.

Jews most certainly do not teach that only Jews go to heaven and all others will be damned.

They teach that Righteous Gentiles will have a place alongside Jews in the Resurrection to come during the Messianic Age, and that the bar is actually lower for non-Jews. Gentiles need only endeavor to keep the Seven Noahide Laws out of love for God and a belief that He wants them to act that way, whereas Jews have to keep the much more rigorous 613 Laws of Moses.

 

[Domen]

I know, that was a joke. But neither do Christians teach that exclusively Christians will go to heaven.

They teach that righteous people of other religions and righteous non-religious people will go there too.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Um, no they don't. That is actually one of the biggest criticisms of Christianity. That the only way you can get to their version of heaven is to renounce your sins and claim that Jesus died for them. Of course, there are other such tests documented in the NT as well. But many Christians tend to forget all the other ones.

 

[Domen]

Um, no they don't.

Yes they do.

I had "Religion and Ethics" subject at school, and what they were teaching was that righteous Non-Christians go to heaven too.

 

[Ajidica]

Yes they do.

I had "Religion and Ethics" subject at school, and what they were teaching was that righteous Non-Christians go to heaven too.

How that idea works is that if someone who has never heard of Christianity lives in accordance with Christian teachings, their lack of membership in the Christian faith would not prevent them from going to heaven. I think Plotinus talking about this in his thread a couple times.

Anyhow, can we get the thread back on topic and away from Jewish and Christian perceptions of heaven?