hmm... I remember reading about an "outpost" mod sometime back so I went looking. Seems it never actually came to life. I believe CivBE has that function so it is possible, but let's not make more work needlessly.
What about allowing the cityview screen to purchase tiles past the 3rd ring? That way if you have enough cash, which you should, you just buy your way to that tile.
hmm... I remember reading about an "outpost" mod sometime back so I went looking. Seems it never actually came to life. I believe CivBE has that function so it is possible, but let's not make more work needlessly.
What about allowing the cityview screen to purchase tiles past the 3rd ring? That way if you have enough cash, which you should, you just buy your way to that tile.
I believe the problem we are aiming to solve is the un-interactivity of the current UB. If we can also solve the "Venice can't grab empty tiles if nobody else does" problem that's great, but that's not the current objective.
Ok here's an idea: Venice was also famous for its Jewish Ghetto (that's where the word comes from: its an ethnic group living together) which resulted in skilled craftsmen and merchants with cultural and familial connections across countries, continents, and religious divides living in and supporting Venice.
Perhaps a Ghetto UI that must be built adjacent to a city but not adjacent to itself? Anything we can do with that?
I believe the problem we are aiming to solve is the un-interactivity of the current UB. If we can also solve the "Venice can't grab empty tiles if nobody else does" problem that's great, but that's not the current objective.
Ok here's an idea: Venice was also famous for its Jewish Ghetto (that's where the word comes from: its an ethnic group living together) which resulted in skilled craftsmen and merchants with cultural and familial connections across countries, continents, and religious divides living in and supporting Venice.
Perhaps a Ghetto UI that must be built adjacent to a city but not adjacent to itself? Anything we can do with that?
The modelers I know from other modding communities are booked through the end of the month. To pull in a favor for a free piece, the earliest I could get something is April. I'm investigating some other options, but the fast and easy route is not available. So, if we're relying on me entirely, either placeholder art or investigating the UB while I get real art are the paths forward.
I believe G said we can't put GP points on UIs. We might be able to put in the UA that Venice's capital gets GP points per Ghetto or something, but the Ghetto should probably do something on its own.
High yields, act as road movement, adjacent to city but not adjacent to each other, should make placing them interesting enough with the limited tools we have. Maybe doesn't even need the act as roads.
The modelers I know from other modding communities are booked through the end of the month. To pull in a favor for a free piece, the earliest I could get something is April. I'm investigating some other options, but the fast and easy route is not available. So, if we're relying on me entirely, either placeholder art or investigating the UB while I get real art are the paths forward.
I believe G said we can't put GP points on UIs. We might be able to put in the UA that Venice's capital gets GP points per Ghetto or something, but the Ghetto should probably do something on its own.
High yields, act as road movement, adjacent to city but not adjacent to each other, should make placing them interesting enough with the limited tools we have. Maybe doesn't even need the act as roads.
We can certainly use placeholder art. We have an unused trade post model from vanilla Civ5 right? Looks like a spread out town?
I believe the problem we are aiming to solve is the un-interactivity of the current UB. If we can also solve the "Venice can't grab empty tiles if nobody else does" problem that's great, but that's not the current objective...
That's where we differ in interpretation, my view is that having a good UI is making Venice's abilities be MORE player controlled. ie. interactive.
I think everyone agrees the current UB is just: bleh! It works but you have no input other than choosing to play as Venice.
UBs or UIs that have been discussed all have their merits, my idea also tackles another issue I see when playing as Venice: claiming resources that other wise go to waste.
I really don't see this problem at all, if the resource is within the 3 ring you can buy it, if it is within the 4th ring you'll get it with cultureexpansion eventually, if it is outside of the 4th ring some AI is going to settle it eventually and you can just attack them and take it.
Also I have to say that unless the main goal of the unique improvement is to boost up Venice's yields, it is going to fall flat. Having a UI slot that only grabs extra tiles is going to be a hell to get good use out of. Luxuries outside of workable range is of limited use to start with, without taking up a precious unique building slot.
Not to mention that the ability to grab tiles outside of your range already exists, it's called a citadel.
I really don't see this problem at all, if the resource is within the 3 ring you can buy it, if it is within the 4th ring you'll get it with cultureexpansion eventually, if it is outside of the 4th ring some AI is going to settle it eventually and you can just attack them and take it.
Also I have to say that unless the main goal of the unique improvement is to boost up Venice's yields, it is going to fall flat. Having a UI slot that only grabs extra tiles is going to be a hell to get good use out of. Luxuries outside of workable range is of limited use to start with, without taking up a precious unique building slot.
Not to mention that the ability to grab tiles outside of your range already exists, it's called a citadel.
Apparently you haven't played games where civs don't start settling their later cities until into the late Industrial - Modern era. Many times I have been on maps where territory is just begging to be taken and it just sits there. Also claiming tiles in 4th, 5th rings is very hit and miss, especially if a mountain range is the way, this focuses the growth where you want it.
Also I never said this ability is the main goal, as my other posts here have said this is in addition to the UI suggestions. Likewise with the citadel, I suggested using some of the citadel code if possible, namely taking tiles around the placement of the UI.
Luxuries outside of workable range is of limited use to start with, without taking up a precious unique building slot.
The Kasbah is straight-up better than every tile improvement you could build next to a city, so you will just build them on every single tile. The choice is in where you settle the city.
This Ghetto idea cannot be built on Luxuries or Strategics and cannot be built adjacent to itself. Deciding which tiles to build it on is the decision. Founding your cities is not an option for Venice. Purposely buying/conquering cities that can get more Ghettos than others is a decision point as well.
The Kasbah is straight-up better than every tile improvement you could build next to a city, so you will just build them on every single tile. The choice is in where you settle the city.
This Ghetto idea cannot be built on Luxuries or Strategics and cannot be built adjacent to itself. Deciding which tiles to build it on is the decision. Founding your cities is not an option for Venice. Purposely buying/conquering cities that can get more Ghettos than others is a decision point as well.
How about a unique improvement of the village? Make it grant both culture and science to help puppet cities become valuable since they weren't anyway due to their -25% penalty while also strengthening the capital city Venice with the unique improvements. These unique improvements would add their respective yields toward GP improvements capitalizing on Venice's gear toward specialization. Since they cannot be adjacent, three of these unique improvements at maximum are only able to benefit the GP improvements.
A lot of fun of the Chateau is figuring out how you can build the maximum number of them without screwing up your other improvements. I think this would have a similar feel. The Kasbah has none of that, and instead has "how can I place my cities to get the maximum number of Kasbahs aka max cities".
Alright, another idea. I think this one is probably not doable, but I'll throw it out there anyway. Canal UI, has to be built adjacent to city and coast. Provides high yields, road movement, and fresh water.
How about a unique improvement of the village? Make it grant both culture and science to help puppet cities become valuable since they weren't anyway due to their -25% penalty while also strengthening the capital city Venice with the unique improvements. These unique improvements would add their respective yields toward GP improvements capitalizing on Venice's gear toward specialization. Since they cannot be adjacent, three of these unique improvements at maximum are only able to benefit the GP improvements.
The problem with a village is that it is just not restricted enough, and if you restrict it slightly it becomes too much like a Chateau or an Encampment.
I'm not a fan of interaction with great tile improvements, mostly because great tile improvements aren't really that interesting. It also kinda forces Venice into a GPfocused tradition gameplay, which is not fun.
A lot of fun of the Chateau is figuring out how you can build the maximum number of them without screwing up your other improvements. I think this would have a similar feel. The Kasbah has none of that, and instead has "how can I place my cities to get the maximum number of Kasbahs aka max cities".
The requirement is too much like the Kasbah, and not having them buildable next to eachother puts too much of a pressure on them to perform. The yields on them are going to have to be massive, which means any city missing out on the maximum number of the improvements is going to suffer greatly, not really a good spot to be in with a civ that can't settle its own cities.
Alright, another idea. I think this one is probably not doable, but I'll throw it out there anyway. Canal UI, has to be built adjacent to city and coast. Provides high yields, road movement, and fresh water.
I've been thinking of some kind of water based UI before, and I just don't think it will work properly. Not to mention that it will probably look pretty horrible.
I just don't think a UI is going to do the trick, guys.
What if, instead of a UI, we give Venice a unique Building line themed around Venice itself? Venice is remarkable for its many landmarks, and we could have these landmarks become available at intervals throughout the tech tree.
I just don't think a UI is going to do the trick, guys.
What if, instead of a UI, we give Venice a unique Building line themed around Venice itself? Venice is remarkable for its many landmarks, and we could have these landmarks become available at intervals throughout the tech tree.
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