Venice

[Cerest]

After a few quick games with a tall Venice, i find that the relative ease in which you get a jewelry monopoly (due to buying city states) along with constructing Jewelers Corporation with their double TR (higher franchise limit)... allows you to get >+200% Great people rate in all cities. This, combined with Freedom's +10 Influence per Great Person consumed is rather amazing.

EDIT: Actually, i just noticed. Does the franchise cap calculation include Venice's extra trade routes? @Gazebo?

I would use the free MoV for the trade mission. The gold and alliance influence with the right city-state in the ancient era is extremely helpful. Plus, as was said, city-states in the ancient era aren't worth owning. Let them built up their infrastructure before acquiring. I don't buy any cities until they can divert production into gold.

I want to point out that their puppets can purchase/hurry any unit without the building requirements. It can build caravans/cargo ships without the respective buildings (same with catapults and such).

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I want to point out that their puppets can purchase/hurry any unit without the building requirements. It can build caravans/cargo ships without the respective buildings (same with catapults and such).

I'm not refering to units. I mean whatever buildings don't get knocked down when you take over management of the city-state plus its tile improvements.

Give the city-state time to build some useful buildings and sufficient tile improvements before you buy it. Get your MoV's worth when you crush their silly little sovereignty under the heel of your fashionable leather boot. Value added.

 

[Funak]

The free MoV helps very much if you can protect the new puppet. I think Funak's main problem with Venice is that Ancient Era puppets are hard to defend. And he's right. They don't come with an army, besides maybe one unit. And they don't come with Walls. But if you protect it with an army you already have or just it being in a defensible spot, they do come with all resources already improved, including iron or horse, and a worker to connect them to Venice or do something else with.

Exactly, I'm never lucky enough to get a city-state within road-distance, meaning if an AI decides to attack it I can't defend it.

 

[Edaka]

I'm not refering to units. I mean whatever buildings don't get knocked down when you take over management of the city-state plus its tile improvements.

I've seen this argument roll out before, but I don't remember what was the conclusion to it: do buildings in cities you acquire via trade/MoV get partly destroyed the same way they do upon conquest?

Edit: I suppose I could have googled that, though. I've been getting progressively lasy with civ research lately.

 

[Cerest]

I'm not refering to units. I mean whatever buildings don't get knocked down when you take over management of the city-state plus its tile improvements.

Give the city-state time to build some useful buildings and sufficient tile improvements before you buy it. Get your MoV's worth when you crush their silly little sovereignty under the heel of your fashionable leather boot. Value added.

What I am saying is, being able to hurry units without the prerequisite buildings is a strength of its own. After playing a Venice authority game, I think *if* there are 2 good nearby city states, I would go authority (1 CS from sailing, another from policy). Otherwise tradition is best D: The 25% production bonus isn't really all that great.

Settling a coastal CS early just means I can hurry caravans and cargo ships earlier. But yeah, only if they are close D:

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I rarely have a problem with that. When I play Venice I max out the # of city-states. That tends to provide plenty of nearby potential puppetry.

 

[Cerest]

When you do that, (get 41 city states on the map), at what point do you stop expanding?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

When you do that, (get 41 city states on the map), at what point do you stop expanding?

When I feel like it. I like to pick up all the City-states near Venice at least, in order to run as many food trade routes to Venice as I can. I may pick up a few more distant ones if I go for a Cultural Victory to use as trade route hubs, of if they happen to include a useful Natural Wonder, or occupy a strategic position. I have to balance that against my ability to defend my distant ones.

 

[Zares]

Venice is insaane. Very risky at start, but mighty at mid-late game. I don't know if it isn't to strong What have I done?

1. I play with JFD's Cultural Deversidy, so I had Aesthetics at start. First policy I pick was happiness added to culture.
This gave me chance to take next policy very fast + boost for great persons.

2. Next I picked Progress tree, to have Science boost after a new Citizen is born + Culture boost after a Technology is researched.
First policy - Organization (+10 Food and Culture after a building is constructed).
Second - Expertise (15% Production towards buildings. 25% faster tile improvement).
This gave me next culture boost, so I could take new policies faster.

3. In the mean time, when I was choosing policies, I focused on found a Pantheon fast with Goddess of Beauty (+4 Faith and +1 Culture from World Wonders. +15% Production of Pre-Renaissance Wonders) and on building Wonders.
This gave me insane Faith boost. I found a Religion first on Emperor difficulty, first in my life

4. Technology, I decided to focus on researching Sailing technology, to have Great Merchant of Venice fast and buy first CS.

5. Religion, I picked Mosques (Use Faith to purchase Mosques (+3 Science, +3 Faith, Reduces Illiteracy, Empty Great Work of Writing Slot, +20% Culture in the City during Golden Ages)
Theocratic Rule: Unlocks Grand Ossuary National Wonder (+10 Faith, +5 Culture from all Holy Sites). We Love the King Day boosts the Faith, Culture, Gold and Science output of a city by 15%.
Asceticism: +1 Food for every two followers (max +15).
Pacifism: Missionaries and Inquisitors cost 30% less Faith, +1 Happiness for every 6 followers of this religion in non-enemy foreign cities.
This combo was insane - spreading my religion to other Civs cities gave me huuuge happiness and culture boost = Golden Age fast = next culture boost and next policies (focused then on Tradition). And after my religion was spread well, Religion Wonder and WLtD boost were insane too.

6. After the Tradition policy tree, I focused on Piety (boost to gold from cities with Temples was nice).

7. Then focused on finishing Progress tree and choose Freedom ideology. And I chose Ideology first as well as Religion

8. Next Industry policy tree - gold, gold, more gooold.

9. Buying CSs, constructing Wonders and buying (hurrying) buildings in CSs = more gold, spreading Religion = more Happiness, Culture. Trading, making friends, caravans, cargo ships.
Assurbanipal made sneak attack on me, but buying CSs is so OP, that I had large army already without focusing on army, so I make him retreat, captured cities next to me and razed them. 1 city I decided to be pupped due to good location (mountains everywhere and gold resources.

10. Except this I had 2 or 3 friends next to me with 1 defensive pact and have peace until 294 turn. I was about to win by economic (Extra Win Condition mod), but noticed to late that ally CS hadn't fishing boats on Pearl luxury! It was banned, so I think AI just ignored them... Well, noticed to late, because when I bought this CS (My merchant had to cross whole World (from South to North) to make boat and win the game, AIs probably realized that I was about to win and they declared war on me, ALL except my friend with defensive pact. So 1 turn to late to make fishing boat. After they declared war on me, I lose luxuries that I imported from them.

So yeah, Venice is pretty strong and fun to play, I couldn't play other Civs as effectively as Venice. I always had problems with countering unhappiness and wondering if settle new city or not (increasing culture cost of new policies and fighting with unhappiness)

I started at 5 PM and ended 5:40 AM, almost 13h without any break and I feel very bad with it But playing as Venice was so smooth without worrying about increasing culture cost and unhappiness and there was a lot of fun that I couldn't stop
Now I don't know what Civ I'll pick in the future after enjoying Venice

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[Funak]

1. I play with JFD's Cultural Deversidy, so I had Aesthetics at start. First policy I pick was happiness added to culture.
This gave me chance to take next policy very fast + boost for great persons.

Nothing ill meant towards JFD but that mod does not translate well into CPP, Medieval techs are balanced around you getting them once you've already spent 6 policies in another tree.

 

[Zares]

What do you mean, Funak? I got just Aesthetics without any policies bought there. Just a little starting bonus.

 

[Funak]

What do you mean, Funak? I got just Aesthetics without any policies bought there. Just a little starting bonus.

getting 100 culture for every GP spent at turn 0 is crazy. You're also able to put points into aesthetics without first finishing an ancient era tree.

 

[Zares]

But what gives 100 culture for spending gold? Aesthetics gives large amount of culture when I expend a Great Person.

 

[Funak]

But what gives 100 culture for spending gold?

I know it's new-years, but what have you been drinking?

 

[Zares]

GP = Great Person, not gold, you're right. Yes, drinking and writing posts on forum is a bad idea. Happy New Year. And I like my whisky

 

[Funak]

GP = Great Person, not gold, you're right. Yes, drinking and writing posts on forum is a bad idea. Happy New Year. And I like my whisky

Happy new year.

 

[DocRockwell]

I've played a few games as Venice on emperor and they were easy wins. The last game I got a cultural victory within 300 turns. I've been able to consistently rush stonehenge thanks to the doges palace bonuses, from there I get the monument to the gods pantheon (boosts production for wonders) and snatch up as many wonders as I can.

For religious beliefs I get +15% capitol yields during golden ages, +3 yields from specialists, +food per citizens (this one is flexible) and +happiness for followers in foreign cities. Make the wonder for a free enhancer and get the one that allows missionaries to work as diplomats. You can easily keep the city states on lock down with that enhancer, and any civizations that share your religion will spread it to city states pretty aggressively. The happiness keeps the golden ages rolling and lets Venice snowball and complete more wonders.

I use my first merchant of venice to improve a tile, there's not enough happiness early on. When I get additional cities, I have all of them send food to Venice. Its really important to get as much food to the capital as possible. By the time I hit corporations Venice usually has 500+ food and up to 40 citizens.

Try to snatch up wonders that give flat bonuses when you expend a great person and wonders that extend golden ages. Petra and Colossus are nice, but not necessarily a priority. If you have maxed your trade routes without them, you won't be wanting for gold.

Don't let your puppet cities skip good buildings just make markets and stuff, force them to make food buildings. Avoid to many specialist buildings, you want them to work tiles for food and you want to save room for guild buildings.

Tradition is the obvious choice for a starting policy. After that I get a point in aesthetics for the culture bonus when you expend great persons, 3 points in faith (cheaper faith purchases and +gold% from temples is useful). I like to complete aesthetics for cultural victory, then the science tree (enlightenment?). Freedom has a lot of obvious choices.


I've had my easiest games on emperor with Venice. Its definitely a very strong civ if you play to your advantages.

 

[Domonu]

I don't know why, but I always seem to fall behind on Venice. My early game is incredibly strong thanks to the doge's palace, but right around the renaissance I start getting out paced in techs, wonders, etc. Not totally sure what I'm doing wrong. Typically I'll go Stonehenge --> Mausoleum and then wondergrab as needed. Can usually get Great Lib on emperor. How many city states should I be turning into puppets? Should I just grab the ones that are closest to me?

 

[Enginseer]

I don't know why, but I always seem to fall behind on Venice. My early game is incredibly strong thanks to the doge's palace, but right around the renaissance I start getting out paced in techs, wonders, etc. Not totally sure what I'm doing wrong. Typically I'll go Stonehenge --> Mausoleum and then wondergrab as needed. Can usually get Great Lib on emperor. How many city states should I be turning into puppets? Should I just grab the ones that are closest to me?

Instead of grabbing wonders, you should be forgoing these wonders for earlier trade routes with foreign civilizations. Rather than buying city-states, it is recommended you spend them on influence and gold and later when necessary to boost your unit supply, purchase the city-states.

Any civilization can get wonders, but too little civilizations can amass an army by gold and alliance in the mid game.

 

[DocRockwell]

I don't know why, but I always seem to fall behind on Venice. My early game is incredibly strong thanks to the doge's palace, but right around the renaissance I start getting out paced in techs, wonders, etc. Not totally sure what I'm doing wrong. Typically I'll go Stonehenge --> Mausoleum and then wondergrab as needed. Can usually get Great Lib on emperor. How many city states should I be turning into puppets? Should I just grab the ones that are closest to me?

Use your first merchant to improve a tile. There isn't enough happiness and stifling growth in your capital will ruin you at this point in the game. When it comes to picking city states to buy, look for one that offers some strategic advantage, such as controlling important choke points or being situated on an isthmus that will improve naval access. Other than that, city states with wonders are an obvious priority.

Get your city state puppets to send food to Venice, immediately. I only puppet as many city states as I can support internal trade routes for. The idea is to maximize growth in the capital.

See my previous post for a few other tips.