Version 1.7 feedback

[Ahriman]

I think he said it clearly enough and you can see it in the save game: he had 4x the population of the next largest civ.

on a low difficulty level, I can easily do that vs the AI too. I just normally stop playing before that point because the game is boring.

Which XML file defines traits? This could be at least partly tested with AI autoplay (weaken the cheaper settler bonus).

I'm certainly not opposed to the idea of reducing the settler cost bonus if it turns out to really matter, all I'm saying is that it would be easy to do it. Aggressive trait can also be very powerful in terms of allownig easy early conquest. So can many other traits.

That is a valid worry; I have given the instructions previously about locally modifying the xml to remove this. Search for "Hurrys" in the forum (not "hurries") and reverse what is written there.

I'll take a look.
I'm not sure how much time for testing I will have before I leave town.

I agree with this. There should be a way to speed up spread of Mahdi within your own territory.

I'm not opopsed to it being slightly easier to spread Mahdi within your territory to cities that don't have a religion, but I'm not sure a missionary is a good way to do this. It sounds pretty messy (missionary that the AI builds iff it has unconverted cities, and that works only in your home cities, and not enemy cities, and uses separate AI to achieve this?).
I don't really want it spreading by peaceful missionary, and I like the idea of having slightly different spread; if you want it to spread to your cities, you should have to use Inquisitors to keep them clear.


Perhaps the Mahdi Temple building could slightly increase passive Mahdi spread rate (in the same way but to a smaller extent than the shrine does)?

Another alternative; no change to existing cities you have when you found Mahdi, they can only get it spread passively, but any new city you found gets Mahdi automatically if it is your state religion.

Another alternative would be: increase the passive spread factor, but increase the distance multiplier. So it is more likely to spread locally, but less likely elsewhere.
I don't remember if the distance modifiers is set separately for each religion.

 

[davidlallen]

Which XML file defines traits? This could be at least partly tested with AI autoplay (weaken the cheaper settler bonus).

The trait is granted in civilizations/civ4leaderheadinfos.xml, search for TRAIT_IMPERIALIST. The effect of the trait can show in various files. For the unit cost bonus, it is in units/civ4unitinfos.xml, search again for TRAIT_IMPERIALIST:

	<Class>UNITCLASS_SETTLER</Class>
	<Type>UNIT_SETTLER</Type>
	[...]
	<ProductionTraits>
		<ProductionTrait>
			<ProductionTraitType>TRAIT_IMPERIALIST</ProductionTraitType>
			<iProductionTrait>50</iProductionTrait>
		</ProductionTrait>
	</ProductionTraits>

 

[Ahriman]

Ok, so changing iProductionTrait from 50 to 30 would presumably change them from building 50% faster to building 30% faster.

Thanks.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

PLaying 1.7.0.5. Religions are still founded irregularly for me. I'm playing Ix, and there's absolutely no reason why I can't found Mahdi. So I partly research Faith and BG or Tleilax does it first, but I found Shai-Hulud. Then I bulb Jihad and somebody else founds Mahdi. Completely illogical.

 

[davidlallen]

PLaying 1.7.0.5. Religions are still founded irregularly for me.

This seems to be working correctly for others, at least for Ahriman who tried it on the PYL maps where you found it. Is it possible you have some local setting different? I am not sure exactly how to track this down. In your CivilizationIV.ini file, there is a line "GameOptions". Is that a big long string of 0's, or are there some 1's? If you change the 1's to 0's in the line, does the problem go away?

If anybody else could confirm they see the correct religions founded, that would be helpful.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

In your CivilizationIV.ini file, there is a line "GameOptions". Is that a big long string of 0's, or are there some 1's? If you change the 1's to 0's in the line, does the problem go away?

00000000000000000000000000001000

So I changed the 1 to a 0 and started another Ix game with Vernius. But it kept turning back into a 1 and needless to say, religions were not founded correctly.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Ecaz is the perfect peaceful cultural victor. Lots of money means science was kept at 85%+ constantly (in monarch mode), and even with a smallish empire, 100% culture wasn't hard to maintain. I spread Quizarate (founded by me) to Alia but she won't budge from Landsraad...somewhat ahistorical. I then spread Technocracy (also founded by me) to Ix and he won't budge from Shai-Hulud either.

I seriously think Quizarate is not worth it. The -50% science in late game seems to be counterintuitive. If only Quizarate priests can enter any territory (whether you have OB or not) then it would make sense.

Just a view of the first atomic bomb I ever built with this game.

 

[Deliverator]

Just a view of the first atomic bomb I ever built with this game.

I think it has only been since the House Atomics project was added in 1.7 that it has been possible to build them.

The role of atomics is something that I think is key for the late tech tree reworking. If you have any feedback on them that would be good. I have been thinking it might be better to enable atomics with a building that each civ has to build rather than a project - but I'm not sure if there's a huge benefit to that other making things a bit different to vanilla.

 

[davidlallen]

00000000000000000000000000001000

So I changed the 1 to a 0 and started another Ix game with Vernius. But it kept turning back into a 1 and needless to say, religions were not founded correctly.

In your "custom game" screen, please scroll down to see all the different game options. Which one does that correspond to? It will be the only checked one. If you uncheck it using the custom game screen, does it stay turned off? I would really like to get to the bottom of this.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

The only boxed that are clicked are the Tech Diffusion Mod and all the victories (which I thought was by default?--I certainly didn't do it). None of the other boxes are checked.
Just started another game as Atreides, founded Shai-Hulud correctly (BG appears not to be present) but when I bulb Jihad somebody else founded Mahdi.

 

[Deliverator]

Just started another game as Atreides, founded Shai-Hulud correctly (BG appears not to be present) but when I bulb Jihad somebody else founded Mahdi.

Does bulbing techs not trigger the same code or something odd like that?

 

[Ahriman]

he only boxed that are clicked are the Tech Diffusion Mod

I could imagine the tech diffusion mod causing weirdness; when you research a tech, it reduces the cost of a tech being researched by another civ and makes them finish it? Dunewars is not intended to have this turned on.

 

[Deliverator]

he only boxed that are clicked are the Tech Diffusion Mod

Tech Diffusion is turned on by default in 1.7. Error?

 

[Ahriman]

Tech Diffusion is turned on by default in 1.7. Error?

Yes, I'd call that an error.

Ecaz is the perfect peaceful cultural victor.

Ecaz is designed to be a peaceful trader/builder civ, with good relations with everyone.

The -50% science in late game seems to be counterintuitive

If you mean the penalty from Golden Path, IIRC that penalty is 25% (which is actually pretty small by that stage in the game; it isn't really a 25% penalty, with all the boosters you have its more like 175% -> 150% or 200% -> 175% - so more like a 15% actual penalty.

The idea behind it is the stagnation of the Golden Path. The golden path quizarate is anti-innovation.

I spread Quizarate (founded by me) to Alia but she won't budge from Landsraad...somewhat ahistorical. I then spread Technocracy (also founded by me) to Ix and he won't budge from Shai-Hulud either.

Odd. Quizarate is Alia's preferred religion, and Technocracy is Ix's preferred religion.
How much of their population did you convert?
AI's will almost never convert to a religion that is not a plurality of their civ. If they had more cities Quizarate than Landsraad, I'd be amazed if she wouldn't switch.

Maybe its just the leaderhead values, Alia is very unwilling to be diplomatically forced to change religions (designed to represent stubbornness and to stop her abandoning Quizarate due to threats if she founds it).

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I spread Quizarate to almost all her cities (and then she clammed up and went for Theocracy, but I gifted her some priests). She even re-spread Landsraad in her cities. Ix had about 5 cities converted to Technocracy, but maybe they wanted to preserve good relations with me (Shai-Hulud) and they were at war. You can see for yourself in the save.

 

[davidlallen]

Does bulbing techs not trigger the same code or something odd like that?

AP has mentioned this very odd problem, but nobody else has reported it. No matter what he does, when he researches a technology somebody else gets the religion, and vice-versa. I cannot reproduce this and neither can Ahriman. Have you ever noticed this?

 

[Deliverator]

Inquisitors don't seem to be able to do anything. I presume there should be a button to remove the non-state religion from the city but I can't see one.

Edit: By default RevDCM.ini has INQUISITIONS_ENABLED = False - can we make the default True?

 

[davidlallen]

Edit: By default RevDCM.ini has INQUISITIONS_ENABLED = False - can we make the default True?

This is fixed in the 1.7.0.6 patch, as shown in the release note. You may need to remove a local RevDCM.ini file so that a new one can be written.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

...but Holy War is probably doable. I just capitulated the Corrinos and was about to do the same to the Atreides (after multiple nukes) when I won a cultural victory. Quizarate is a cash cow (because of -30% maintenance) plus usually very easy to spread.

 

[Ahriman]

Quizarate is a cash cow (because of -30% maintenance) plus usually very easy to spread.

Yes, this is intended, its supposed to help you maintain large empires.

Does this still make you no longer feel:

I seriously think Quizarate is not worth it

?

I'm very surprised at you accidentally winning cultural victory (50k culture is a lot!!).
What is most of your culture coming from?