Version 2.8beta

[Carwyn]

I too see AI TCs. Actually quite a few.

In fact I've often wondered why I couldn't capture one for it's Gold! (hint: could be a neat little feature since barbs can kill your TCs)

One thing I did notice about TCs in this version. The 1st TC I sent out gave me 1700 gold (woohoo!). The next 2 (to different AI and farther away) only netted me 120 and 175 gold.

But with it getting harder each version to keep the gold flowing I am using TCs more than I did in earlier versions of RoM.

The only TC's I know of that give that kind of gold are actually Great Merchants - perhaps you made a mistake? I know I wish they didn't look alike.

 

[digitCruncher]

I haven't played yet... but what an improvement from just looking at the civilopedia:

Even though there are a tiny number of new buildings, they are all unique and useful. The no Unhealthiness from Buildings building looked horribly overpowered... until I realised what you require to build it: Something which can go NUCLEAR!! If those nanites go nuclear and eat half of my major production city, I am sure going to be pissed!! But all in good fun

Although this is a much bigger step forward for this mod, especially with communication satellites (I love them so much, it is about time they got put in!!), I still have much grief with, you guessed it, the Internet and Encyclopedia projects. As per usual, I have to go through all the trouble with modding these horrendiously overpowered projects out of the game.

But I will be playing an Industrial era start, so I can quickly get into the Transhuman era I can't wait to use these newfangled super-spies Nanite spies... AWAY!!

Keep up the good work!!

[Edit]Help!! I started my first game... but now it refuses to go past 'Setup Map' whenever I try and start a new game!!

Is anyone else having this issue?? I have tried custom continents, and continents from both Custom Game and Play Now, both without any luck. What map settings are you guys using, as I can't seem to get this game to start up [/Edit]

[Edit2]Found a solution: The name of the folder MUST be "Rise of Mankind" I had to install it in a non-default location, so I didn't copy the folder name down exactly Anyway, that is how you fix the problem. (Thankyou person who suggested that )[/Edit2]

 

[Lamb Chop]

I found the missing barbs.
I don't recall them forming a civilization, building settlers/ pioneers, cities, improvements and just plain run rampart. This was supposed to be aggressive AI, Barbarian CIV option was off.

They seriously colonized a whole continent (mostly mine now)

Any input?

 

[szemek77]

I saw my first AI TC's in my current game. Toku built two.

Does the fact, that AI managed to build couple of trade caravans, really affect whay I said?

[/QUOTE] I was able to settle (I'm a builder, not a fighter) about three times the territory of the next largest AI by doing this. [/QUOTE]

The answer is: NO

Trade caravans allow to ignore the economic reality of the game. It is huge but unfair advantage against AI.

I'm also more like a builder than a fighter. It bothered me that AI tended to be very agressive. It was annoying that I got requests to join their ridiculous wars between each other every five turns. I was upset when - instead of building my economic and cultural power - I was forced to create huge army, not to conquer, but to defend my empire from primitive warriors such as Zulu or Mongols.

But you know what? Having 8 times more points on scoreboard than the the best AI civ, possesing 4 times bigger territory, and running an extreme powerful empire who has built 95 % of all world wonders and projects makes me feel bored. I'm starting to miss previous games, which were EXCITING, due to the REAL competition with AI. As simple, as that.

 

[dudeSDCA]

Thanks for posting the beta Zap (Sounded painful, so super-thanks!)!

So I'm getting back to the states (back home) from being on vacation for a few weeks and definitely want to try the beta out

So here's my quick questions:
- Should I download the current beta version to try out this weekend, or are you planning on posting an updated one?
- Looks like there's a couple of recommendations for mods, dlls, etc. to help with stability. Could someone post "simple" instructions for me to follow to play the most stable beta version? I didn't completely follow the previous post...
- Is Afforess multiple production modmod compatable? Would love to test it out too!

Thanks again to Zap, OS79, Afforess, and all the AMAZING folks who have done such a kick ass job with ROM & modmods!

 

[digitCruncher]

On the topic of trade caravans...

As far as I can tell, if Trade Caravans haven't been given a buff in 2.8, in the early game, trade caravans barely gave you 1 per , and later on they give you around 1.5 per .

In other words, they are BARELY better than building wealth! I am reasonably sure that if you built wealth instead of trade caravans, you would find a similar result (not as pronounced, of course, but still significant)

Trade caravans are slightly worse than wealth, however. Firstly, they take time to create and move. Next, as military units, you have to pay upkeep on them (varies between 1 GPT, and 3 GPT, depending on civics). Finally, Trade caravans can be captured and killed.

So, no. They aren't horrendously over powered. Sure, they ARE strong, but they do have major weaknesses, and aren't all that different from building wealth (Just a slightly better hammer:gold ratio, slower rate of gathering, and slightly less reliable)

Ideas for balancing:

+1 GPT upkeep cost (Freights might cost +2, or +3 GPT, and be significantly faster)
OR
Reduce the gold gathering rate by 10~15%
OR
Impose a 5 Unit National Limit on building them at a time (Wasn't this automatically in 2.71 anyway??)

Thus they remain slightly better than building wealth, while still having significant draw-backs.

 

[szemek77]

On the topic of trade caravans...

As far as I can tell, if Trade Caravans haven't been given a buff in 2.8, in the early game, trade caravans barely gave you 1 per , and later on they give you around 1.5 per .

I think I'm not an expert here, but aren't you confusing and
by any chance?

It seems so.....

 

[cheesemijit]

whats the difference?

 

[Afforess]

whats the difference?

Huge, Huge difference.

is the base gold that each plot yields.

can be your stockpile, or the overall gold per turn that your empire is earning. Each city also earns , and this is not the total accumulation of , but rather, the amount of commerce that was not spent on or , multiplied by its modifiers.

 

[cheesemijit]

oh so just one is gold and one is gpt

 

[szemek77]

cheesemijit: seriously? are you joking, or what?

to make long story short: it means that you can convert 150 hammers for 210 gold when building and sending a caravan, but if you convert 150 hammers to produce gold, you will not receive 150 gold, but much less. just check. that is the difference. simple as that.

 

[Bezhukov]

On the topic of trade caravans...

As far as I can tell, if Trade Caravans haven't been given a buff in 2.8, in the early game, trade caravans barely gave you 1 per , and later on they give you around 1.5 per .

In other words, they are BARELY better than building wealth! I am reasonably sure that if you built wealth instead of trade caravans, you would find a similar result (not as pronounced, of course, but still significant)

Trade caravans are slightly worse than wealth, however. Firstly, they take time to create and move. Next, as military units, you have to pay upkeep on them (varies between 1 GPT, and 3 GPT, depending on civics). Finally, Trade caravans can be captured and killed.

So, no. They aren't horrendously over powered. Sure, they ARE strong, but they do have major weaknesses, and aren't all that different from building wealth (Just a slightly better hammer:gold ratio, slower rate of gathering, and slightly less reliable)

Ideas for balancing:

+1 GPT upkeep cost (Freights might cost +2, or +3 GPT, and be significantly faster)
OR
Reduce the gold gathering rate by 10~15%
OR
Impose a 5 Unit National Limit on building them at a time (Wasn't this automatically in 2.71 anyway??)

Thus they remain slightly better than building wealth, while still having significant draw-backs.

Caravans are available way before wealth is.

My latest game (2.8 beta, snail, immortal), I built Silk Road (+100% gold). Building Trade Caravans in that city netted me 2.8 the gold that building wealth did when I was just running the TC's across the border in less than two turns (+420 gold apiece). Once I contacted the top AI civ and set up a galley relay, I was making 3.6 times the gold (+660 each).

 

[NBAfan]

I like the idea of the trade caravan giving both parties gold .

 

[Domino369]

I don't build caravans for the pure fact that 50% of the time they crash my game lol

 

[JosEPh_II]

Caravans are available way before wealth is.

My latest game (2.8 beta, snail, immortal), I built Silk Road (+100% gold). Building Trade Caravans in that city netted me 2.8 the gold that building wealth did when I was just running the TC's across the border in less than two turns (+420 gold apiece). Once I contacted the top AI civ and set up a galley relay, I was making 3.6 times the gold (+660 each).

I guess I need to learn how to do this. Especially early game as I'm an expansionist builder and Need the Gold to keep my cities running.

Tangent observation:
If I had to sit with just 4-5 cities early game I'd get crushed by the AI, especially since the AI's Mil Units seem nearly invincible in this version. If your units don't have at least 3-4 promotions don't even bother to take them out of their home city. I guarantee the AI will have 3+ promotions for every one of their Mil units. And attacking their cities you NEED to have units 2-4 levels above their defenders Plus a ton of siege weapons. And Then it will take you 3-4 turns to even get city defenses down to 0%. But you can have 110% city def bonus and 1-2 promotions for your defenders and the AI can Capture your city in One Turn! Yeow! And this is just on Noble level.

It's definitely harder in my book with this version.

 

[Bezhukov]

I guess I need to learn how to do this. Especially early game as I'm an expansionist builder and Need the Gold to keep my cities running.

Tangent observation:
If I had to sit with just 4-5 cities early game I'd get crushed by the AI, especially since the AI's Mil Units seem nearly invincible in this version. If your units don't have at least 3-4 promotions don't even bother to take them out of their home city. I guarantee the AI will have 3+ promotions for every one of their Mil units. And attacking their cities you NEED to have units 2-4 levels above their defenders Plus a ton of siege weapons. And Then it will take you 3-4 turns to even get city defenses down to 0%. But you can have 110% city def bonus and 1-2 promotions for your defenders and the AI can Capture your city in One Turn! Yeow! And this is just on Noble level.

It's definitely harder in my book with this version.

Sounds good. I'm running away with my Immortal game, but then again, I started with lots of rivers and hills.



I'll try Deity with a tougher start next and see it things have really changed.

 

[Tabris]

I'm having constant CTDs about 1760 in 2 different games. Somebody having the same problem?

 

[zappara]

So here's my quick questions:
- Should I download the current beta version to try out this weekend, or are you planning on posting an updated one?
- Looks like there's a couple of recommendations for mods, dlls, etc. to help with stability. Could someone post "simple" instructions for me to follow to play the most stable beta version? I didn't completely follow the previous post...
- Is Afforess multiple production modmod compatable? Would love to test it out too!

Thanks again to Zap, OS79, Afforess, and all the AMAZING folks who have done such a kick ass job with ROM & modmods!

There won't be another beta version so if you want to test it you should download this one. Most RoM modmods should work with this beta as there haven't been any changes how the modules are handled.


About Trade Caravan

Thanks for good posts about them. I'll have to tweak them somehow or remove them if I can't find good solution soon.

Now, for testing v2.8beta, could you all play the game as if there isn't Trade Caravans at all so I could get some feedback about mod's balance when those units are not used (consider them as exploit/cheat)? One random event does give 1 Trade Caravan so that's an exception for the above request.

 

[strategyonly]

There won't be another beta version so if you want to test it you should download this one. Most RoM modmods should work with this beta as there haven't been any changes how the modules are handled.


About Trade Caravan

Thanks for good posts about them. I'll have to tweak them somehow or remove them if I can't find good solution soon.

Now, for testing v2.8beta, could you all play the game as if there isn't Trade Caravans at all so I could get some feedback about mod's balance when those units are not used (consider them as exploit/cheat)? One random event does give 1 Trade Caravan so that's an exception for the above request.

When playing i NEVER ever use Trade Caravan, Freight, and Entertainer.
Or these:
Adventurer
Bazooka
Flak
Lightaa
Humvee
RollsRoyce
Seaplane
Early Battleship
Hydra
Automatons
Cyborg
Assault Mech
BTR 80
Bazooka
Flamethrower
Guided Missile
Genetic and Super Soldier
Medic
Mercenary Infantry
Police
Seaplane
Special Forces
UN Vehicles

I have tons of excitement without these units. And each time i play, i play a different kind of style. But again without those mentioned above.
Plus i have been playing lately about three hours a day every day.

 

[cr0ws]

I've also seen AI use trade caravans.

Instead of suggesting to get rid of them all together I suggest making it modular so you can just delete the folder for those that don't like them, I for 1 LOVE the caravan idea and insist they be there!