Version 4.2 Discussion Thread

[dripdrip]

Just downloaded. Good work, Lunarmongoose!

also whether Alphabetical Sorting is on or not to start with in the Sevopedia

Very much appreciated!! Adjusted domestic advisor length and the silk road wonder bug fix also.

There is no vanilla AI code for handling/moving/using LAND-based "attack-without-declaring-war" units, and the AI mods never wrote any that I'm aware of, so I didn't give the Pirate unit this stat. One of my primary design goals is to never add any major features or abilities that humans can use but AI players won't be able to take full advantage of (or in this case any advantage of at all).

So the Pirate unit works just like all other land military units, except that it can be carried as a Special Cargo type in the Corsair and Privateer. (And if it DID have "land-privateer" ability, then I would've given it weaker combat stats to compensate, heh.)

Maybe this explanation needs to be added to Stuff to Know thread. Fortunately I had built ONLY 7 Pirates before recognizing that they are not like what I had imagined and eventually I gifted them to my vassals and forgot about it. )

By the way, the AI doesn't seem to build many Monk Units. My neighbor civ had built Shaolin Temple wonder but I found only 1 monk throughout entire their history.

 

[LunarMongoose]

It wound up being the last post at the end of a page lol, so I'm going to repeat this ONE MORE TIME just to try and make sure no one misses it. New Stuff to Know entry:

* There is an additional settings file for the mod itself: "MongooseMod/Options.ini". I've seen other mods add a tab to the actual in-game Options dialog for this purpose, but I haven't looked into how to do that yet, and this method was simple and easy, so for now it's staying the way it is, heh. The file can be edited just like "CivilizationIV.ini" in the User folder, so please be aware of it! It sets the initial default starting value whenever the game is launched for the Field-of-View slider on the main UI, and as of version 4.2a, also whether Alphabetical Sorting is on or not to start with in the Sevopedia.

Maybe this explanation needs to be added to Stuff to Know thread. Fortunately I had built ONLY 7 Pirates before recognizing that they are not like what I had imagined and eventually I gifted them to my vassals and forgot about it. )

I appreciate the concern, but the Stuff document is already pretty long, and everything that's currently there needs to be there b/c there's no other easy way to know those things.

But with the Pirate unit, if it had a "land-privateer" ability, there *would* be not one but TWO lines automatically generated in its mouseover, "Hidden Nationality" and "Can Attack without Declaring War" - both now in a super-obvious dark gray color too! (In other words, it'd be just like the Corsair and Privateer. )

I understand the confusion with the Pirate name, but those unit stat lines matter a lot in this game, and I have to be able to rely on people to notice these things, heh. If Stuff weren't so long already I wouldn't mind, but I really need people to read it all as it is without making it longer.

p.s. - I actually DID have that stat on both the Pirate AND War Dog very briefly originally. I forget which MM version that was, but it got changed quickly when I realized the problem. But that WAS my original intent / design, and I really LOVED the idea of a super-early optional unit like the War Dog also having it.

I was hoping to eventually learn how to write the necessary AI code myself to support land-privateers, but it's not really necessary - the mod plays fine without it and the units work great as normal military once you buff their stats - so I'm not sure if I'll ever get to it. The K-Mod merge is WAY more important, and even that may take me a while since I desperately need a break right now, heh.

By the way, the AI doesn't seem to build many Monk Units. My neighbor civ had built Shaolin Temple wonder but I found only 1 monk throughout entire their history.

They MAY have legitimate reasons for this - I'm not sure. The AI evaluation code is very extensive, it looks at everything a unit has and evaluates it based on what that AI player currently needs, so I can't just look at the code and say "oh, that's why!". Interesting observation though! Thanks for telling me.

I DO know that Karadoc completely rewrote the code that handles this from scratch in his K-Mod engine, so there isn't much point to me getting into it now anyway, given that switching to his system is the very next thing on my list, heh.

 

[dripdrip]

but I really need people to read it all as it is without making it longer.

I completely agree. Really I skipped the pedia description about privateers and pirates. My fault.

 

[LunarMongoose]

Approximately 15 people now had grabbed the 4.2 main download WITHOUT also grabbing the 4.2a Patch file, and I really don't want anyone to not have the update, soooo I went ahead and posted a 4.2a main download afterall, heh. It's no big deal to do, and not that big to store in my archives locally I guess, so I'll just do it this way from now on. Also works a lot better with the CFC file system.

(If you already used the patch to update 4.2 to 4.2a, you do NOT need to download this - it's exactly the same files.)

---

Anywho, hopefully you guys are enjoying 4.2a! Nobody has posted about it crashing yet, so that's a good sign.

I appreciate all feedback as always, but am specifically interested in Tech costs right now! I suspect they need to be reduced slightly, but I need to know if people are getting most of the way through the Tech Tree by the ends of their games or not, on average. Sadly I haven't had time to actually play Civ4 myself in a long time, and probably still won't for a while, so it's hard to tell, heh.

 

[dripdrip]

I finished just three Mongoosemod games so far(Twightlight lama difficulty, std map size, normal speed. I am a very slow player). One defeated, one domination victory and one diplomatic victory. I am not sure if the tech costs have to be adjusted because game progresses are varied in vanilla BTS too.
I think outpost is made obsolete too soon compared to woodland cottage or lumberyard. Tribes and Gatherers are cheap and useful but are quickly gone too. How about slightly extending the length of the prehistoric era? And I think Machu Picchu, Tsukiji fish market and some other Great Wonders are somewhat overpowered(thou Machu Picchu is my favorite Wonder )

 

[templar4522]

Been a while since I came here (or played civ4, actually). I just downloaded 4.2a and will try it out in the next few days, as I have some free time!
Happy to read that providing my save file helped in finding out what the issue was!

 

[LunarMongoose]

Just checking in to let you guys know I'm still around! I just finished another major project (a big update to my private GalCiv3 mod, heh), but I still have a lot of things left I need to do or catch up on. (Between Civ4 and GalCiv3, I've basically been modding continuously since August 2016 now, with just a couple short breaks sprinkled in.)

There is definitely still going to be a version 4.3, and it is definitely still focused on rewriting the entire DLL to upgrade to the K-Mod engine. I just need some time off first, lol. Am tentatively planning to get started on it in 4-6 months (ie this winter), and expect it to take around 3 months to do. So you can enjoy 4.2a for a while yet before I go breaking your save games again.

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p.s. - I'm still looking for feedback on tech costs slash overall tech progression speed! Ideally I'd like most games to at least reach Renaissance before they end as sort of a minimum expected result, and I'd like SOME games to get into Modern and Future so the content isn't effectively wasted. I'm still worried the tech tree is a little too slow currently, but I don't know for sure b/c I haven't had time to play it myself in literally years now, lol.

Happy to read that providing my save file helped in finding out what the issue was!

Ooh great to see you back! And yes I'm especially grateful for that report/savefile in particular, because I personally play with Vassal States disabled in the game options, which prevents breakaway Colonies from ever forming, which means I never would've found the bug on my own.

 

[Rakete4]

Hi Lunarmongoose!

Just showing up to say that I will quit my job end of October, so then I will have time to play MM 4.2a and maybe even update my Africa map.
Great to hear that you still plan on upgrading to the K-Mod engine.

Rakete4

 

[LunarMongoose]

Hi Lunarmongoose!

Just showing up to say that I will quit my job end of October, so then I will have time to play MM 4.2a and maybe even update my Africa map.
Great to hear that you still plan on upgrading to the K-Mod engine.

Rakete4

Omgosh YAY!!! Rakete's back... again! So glad to hear there's still hope for the Africa map, potentially.

Please don't worry I was never not going to do the engine upgrade. But it's a major amount of work and 4.2 turned into a huge thing on its own. Then I had GC3 I had to work on (still am sadly), and badly need some time off. The good news is, with 4.2 the content side is FINALLY finished, and with 4.2a all the bugs are fixed (pretty sure at this point), so I really should be free to focus on the engine next time.

 

[Rakete4]

I have started my first game since several years, so far I cannot say much. The gameplay seems to be pretty much the same as before. Unfortunately I lost my first tribe to a python, and now I am Playing catch-up. Stealth animals are a good idea. Only weird thing so far was a Zebra that I spotted in the antarctis.

 

[LunarMongoose]

I have started my first game since several years

WOOHOO!!!

The gameplay seems to be pretty much the same as before.

Yep. I'd been pretty happy with the gameplay for a long time, so the only things that really changed in that department in 4.2 were the Tech Tree updates (Medieval and Early Renn., adding Mechanized Warfare between Combustion and Flight, and a few other things I'm forgetting), and the updated resources (adding Prime Timber etc, and going back to the 4.0 placements in Prehistoric for a few things like Reveals Marble). Please remember I did send you a Beta version or two during development, and the Tech Tree stuff was already done at that point, so you were already familiar with it, heh.

The main things in 4.2 were TONS of bugfixes and code improvements, the colored text lines in the object mouseovers (you used to complain a lot about Civics and Units having too many effects, but I think it's a lot better now just by making them more readable heh), the full ethnic unit graphics for every civ, and I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch of stuff again lol. But I can't emphasize enough how much the code was improved, just literally all over the place. It's been out a long time now and I STILL haven't gotten a single bug report!

Unfortunately I lost my first tribe to a python, and now I am Playing catch-up. Stealth animals are a good idea.

Ouch. Hrm. I could probably put in an exception to make Animals never attack the starting Band, which would be easy since it's a special unit that never gets used again.

I'd prefer that over giving a free starting combat unit (unless it were a Scout it wouldn't be able to keep up with the Band movement-wise, and regardless it would allow too much early Hut grabbing), and I'd also prefer it over giving the Band combat stats, since it could still die to an Animal if it met one of the strong ones, or if it just got attacked by animals repeatedly. Though I suppose something like "Strength 5, Defensive Only, Hunter Promotion" on the Band would work, lol.

Only weird thing so far was a Zebra that I spotted in the antarctis.

Most "Native" values are terrain types, but not all. If you check the Zebra's entry in the Pedia, you'll see Rocky and Peak in the list, both of which will allow a few of them to spawn anywhere, including the Antarctic. I can't really help that, as I was going for as much realism as I could on the Native settings, which is why I modded in the Hill and Peak options there.

In theory I COULD make it also check the hidden underlying terrain type when it's looking at Peak Native tiles, but the way Rocky terrain works is it has a small chance to spawn anywhere, based on sharp elevation changes over a short distance. That was the only thing I could come up with using the mapscript data that would make it different from other terrain types.

 

[Rakete4]

Ouch. Hrm. I could probably put in an exception to make Animals never attack the starting Band, which would be easy since it's a special unit that never gets used again.

I didn't lose the starting band. I lost the first tribe that I built. That caused some delay in my overall development.

 

[Rakete4]

ok, LM, here is my first reported bug:

In the civics screen, it says +8554% building production for Organized religion, which is probably supposed to mean +25% or +50%. Same for some of the other civics.

 

[LunarMongoose]

I didn't lose the starting band. I lost the first tribe that I built. That caused some delay in my overall development.

Erm, yes, obviously you lost a Tribe, since if your Band had died the game would've been over instantly... Also, I forgot, there's a short delay of a couple turns before even the Animals start spawning, which is the existing protection for everyone's Bands. They're not meant to wander TOO far from their starting locations anyway, so I'm going to leave that as-is.

In the civics screen, it says +8554% building production for Organized religion, which is probably supposed to mean +25% or +50%. Same for some of the other civics.

Gah, what the heck? I see +25% on Organized Religion, always have, and all the other civic % numbers are perfectly normal too, both initially and after adding Era's of Tech and adopting the civic. Not to mention nobody else has ever said anything about them being wrong, sooooo.... I have no idea.

 

[Rakete4]

Hi LM,

Unfortunately my first game is stuck in the year 2158 AD.
When I hit end of term, it seems to be calculating forever.

I have sent you the savegame by eMail a week ago, but it seems you are not using your old address any more?

Rakete4

 

[LunarMongoose]

I have sent you the savegame by eMail a week ago, but it seems you are not using your old address any more?

Oh, right, sorry! I thought of that a while back but never got around to emailing you, and you weren't active on the forum here til now so it kinda slipped through. Last summer Apple added a new rule requiring 2-factor carp if you're trying to use an Apple email address with a 3rd-party program like Thunderbird, and the 2-factor carp to do it has to be Apple freaking hardware like a Mac or iPhone. I haven't used any Apple hardware in many years now and I refuse to ever, EVER buy a smartphone or tablet, soooo long story short yes I had to switch to a new email account. I haven't had access to the old one since last May or June or something, so any msgs you sent since then I missed - sorry! I'm going to PM you the new one right now, heh.

Unfortunately I really don't have time to work on the DLL yet so I don't think a save file will do much good. I'm still concerned about the gibberish civic numbers you were seeing, and whatever caused that could easily have caused this too. I was thinking it must be either installed wrong, or a corrupted file somewhere or something, or possibly you didn't have the game set to English text mode like the mod still requires for now (sorry about that too, sigh).

 

[Rakete4]

I will check my language settings and make a screenshot of the civics soon. I was quite busy over the last few days, but next week will be better.

 

[LunarMongoose]

Still around btw! Just been on FoE nonstop since giving up on Blizzard, lol...

 

[Bati]

Hi LunarMongoose,
I'm completely new to your MOD and in the middle of my very first game using your MOD, which I like very much. Thanks for this Masterpiece!

There are some things which I do not understand, though, regarding the more "fantasy" aspects of your mod:
(a) although I reached the renaissance era, I never saw any of these monster units (like sandworms, turtles etc.). Apparently they are barbarian units, so it is probably normal that I cannot build them myself, but shouldn't they spawn then like barbarians? Even if they did, I do not understand why particular technologies refer to these monster units? Is it that if one nation discovers a particular technology (referring to a monster) that this monster may then spawn somewhere ?
(b) how to build snowmans? I haven't seen any on the map...
I'm using the map BTS_Earth2_MME_v10.py, if that matters ...

In case you are still working on this MOD, here are some issues that I found:
(1) There is some inconsistency regarding the number of turns until the next cultural expansion in the city view, see the first screenshot. Shortly before taking this screenshot, I removed one artist in this city, which was apparently not taken into account in the violet bar.
(2) The Quinquereme and Caravel units jaunting on a plain tile , see the second screenshot.
(3) The "Sid's Tip" for Economics still says that the first to discover Economics receives a Great Merchant, which you changed apparently in your MOD.

Finally I have a wish for 4.3: it would be great if this Leader-Cycling-feature could be switched off in custom games; I choose may leaders very carefully according to their traits and would prefer to keep them throughout one game.