Views on Killing?

[Atropos]

Well I'm more confused than ever pretty much, according to some web sites catholic and non-fundenmentalist protestant faiths are fairly consistent that only killing in self defense is tolerated, this appears to have remained unchanged since the foundation of both churches and that killing in war is not covered under this tennant, I'm a litle unsure of the Jewish position which appears to be mixed, some saying it is murder whilst others saying it is kill with again a distinction for war also an acknowledgement of killing as punishment as being beyond its remit.

It's clear to me that this is a matter of interpritation or in other words that this depends on who you speak to about the issue(which is of no real help whatsoever) I know fundementalists position I read it in spades and I also read the counter position of non fundementalists in America who are just as arrogant and opinionated on the issue, which really doesn't help, I don't think calling someone a fat head is conducive to making a case for kill not murder Which is why I wasn't too interested in Mob Boss's position, because I've already seen it or the counter position in his land because it was equally biased.

I would like to see what the Jewish position is as it is the least vocal position on the web and probably the most accurate. For now I'll say maybe it's murder but I'm not sure as there appears to be disagreement of various sources from them? Scriptural interpritation, who'd be a theoligist honestly! Anyone got any wisdom that will show me the light, cause wood trees and all that.

Well, I'm not a rabbi, but I am Jewish and I do have some knowledge of Jewish theology.

It is a myth that the 10 Commandments have particular validity as compared to the other several hundred commandments in the Torah, some of which appear to legitimate killing in specific circumstances. The reason why there is so much debate among Jews on this issue is that Jews differ as to what extent the 613 mitzvot (commandments) are supposed to be taken literally. Orthodox Jews think that all commandments should be taken literally and have a variety of ways of explaining apparent inconsistencies such as this one. Conservative Jews think that commandments do not have to be taken literally, but that you are demonstrating your remembrance of God by doing so (e.g, every time you have to stop yourself from flipping a light switch on Saturday, you are forcing yourself to think about God). Reform Jews believe that the mitzvot were the product of specific historical conditions and should not be applied to all situations.

All Jews believe that a righteous liver, i.e. someone who conforms to the spirit of the Mosaic law, will be saved whether or not he/she is Jewish.

 

[Sidhe]

Thanks alot I apreciate that and any other Jewish members if they'd care to give there views on this, I'd welcome them?

However this seems to be a question few can answer definitively and those that do appear to brook no argument? I do shy away from blinkered self proclamation, I especially disliked the US's POV on the matter they really have made it a black and white situation, it's horrible to see such conceit.:/

I'm not tlaking about you Mob Boss BTW, I'm referring to the countless web sites I visited.

 

[Ayatollah So]

As long as the animal is killed painlessly and this won't cause suffering of e.g. its mate, and as long as it will be replaced with similar, I don't see a problem. By "replaced with similar" I mean that most species are at some rough population equilibrium, so killing one makes room for another. E.g. you kill one beetle and some other beetle can move in and take its ecological niche.

Now if you move up to birds and mammals then there's a good chance there is a mate which suffers. And when you move up to self-conscious animals the "replacement" idea is no longer relevant - because the differences between individual stories matter - because these individuals have stories.

 

[Evil Tyrant]

In my opinion it is ok to kill any animal, the only limit would be whether or not the animal belonged to you. With humans it is ok, but there must be a good reason. These are in my opinion acceptable reasons for killing someone.
1. Self defence(anyone attacking you)
2. Military service(ie enemy foreigners during a war)
3. Burglars(If you break into my house, you deserve what you get)
4. Executioners performing their duty.

 

[El_Machinae]

I believe that destroying unique information is something that is to be avoided, if possible. I waffle on whether it's okay to destroy information that would be destroyed regardless (so, the memories in a bug are gone when it dies ... no matter when it dies).

I also feel that killing is permissible in self defense, but I must admit that's a selfish emotion. Just because it's permissible does not mean it's morally the superior choice or desirable.

 

[Sidhe]

What do you classify as unique information and is it ever destroyed completely, I don't think theres anything I can think of that couldn't be though of by someone else given enough time? But then I'm not sure what your talking about here? I mean killing Einstein age 18 would probably of set us back 20 years but he wasn't the only fish in the barrel.

 

[El_Machinae]

What do you classify as unique information and is it ever destroyed completely

No one can replicate the experience I just felt typing this message. They may get a lot of similarities, but this unique experience is forever ... unique.

If there's a recording of it, especially in the brain of a sentient creature, it should not be destroyed proactively.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Killing humans is generally wrong. The exceptions are: immediate self-defence; defence of another person; in a legitimate war when the other person is a threat to you (doesn't have to mean the war is just, only that you are killing combatants); to carry out a legitimate punishment (I think capital punishment is acceptable for some particular crimes, but not garden-variety murder).

Hunting delicious animals is okay if you intend to eat them. Hunting merely for pleasure is wrong, but if you eat what you catch (or if you are hunting to reduce population, as they did where I am from because the white-tailed deer were overpopulated) then it is okay.

Killing animals for agriculture is okay as long as reasonabl;e accomodations are made so that they don't suffer needlessly while being raised or slaughtered.

Killing animals to stop the spread of disease, or in any other way because they are vermin, is okay. Bust out the Raid and mousetraps and stomp on the cockroach. But leave the spiders alone. I like spiders and anyways they kill insects too.

 

[Sidhe]

No one can replicate the experience I just felt typing this message. They may get a lot of similarities, but this unique experience is forever ... unique.

If there's a recording of it, especially in the brain of a sentient creature, it should not be destroyed proactively.

Explains why you don't want to die, interesting.

@Erin: Spiders are ugly that's there problem, if they were cute they'd have no problems, even the poison thing would be forgiven. Mankind is shallow I'm afraid

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

@Eran: Spiders are ugly that's there problem, if they were cute they'd have no problems, even the poison thing would be forgiven. Mankind is shallow I'm afraid

Odd, I think spiders are cool-looking. Oddly enough, I think insects look freaky, but add a couple legs and I'm cool with them. Weird how that works.

 

[Sidhe]

In all seriousness I think spiders are one of the species that we are born with an inate fear of although I may be confusing it with snakes, it would make sense to fear something that can kill you or leave you in intense agony from an evolutionary stand point. I think fear of the dark is another one, but it's years since I read anything about phobias so it may well of been a trendy misreperesentation of info.

I agree I think spiders are great but where I live there are no spiders capable of doing us harm, even the snakes are unlikely to kill unless your very old or very young.

Kill no animals that you wouldn't eat is my philosophy unless they pose a distinct danger to you or your kin, makes sense.

 

[Winterfell]

Basic assumption: Killing living beings other people care about, is wrong.
Of course, there is more to it than just that and it is by far more complex.

 

[GenMarshall]

Killing people is what I feel is wrong to do.

 

[Narz]

I like the way you think El

 

[Tycoon101]

I would vote for the option:

Killing for self-defense is fine, but no killing of non-food animals. But I voted th last option for the heck of it.

 

[tomsnowman123]

I understand the need of killing for food, but otherwise I am totally against it, and I do believe we kill too many animals. As for humans, I wish all violence would just stop.

 

[El_Machinae]

Explains why you don't want to die, interesting.

Luckily, I can imagine that other people don't want to die, either, so I don't advocate killing due to the Golden Rule. As well, a cure for aging is more likely if a society looks for it (rather than just myself). Basically, *I* don't want to die, and I seek a beneficial partnership with others who don't want to, either. I don't kill, because I believe in following the Golden Rule.

In all seriousness I think spiders are one of the species that we are born with an inate fear of

Spider, snakes, darkness, and falling. We're not actually innately afraid of them, but phobias of these things are MUCH easier to form than anything else because we're hard-wired to BECOME phobic of these things more easily than others.

It's neat, because it very much seems to be an actual instinct we have, much like a beaver building a dam

 

[Kozmos]

I understand the need of killing for food, but otherwise I am totally against it, and I do believe we kill too many animals. As for humans, I wish all violence would just stop.

All violence to stop? *shudder* That would be too painful for me.

 

[Sidhe]

Basic assumption: Killing living beings other people care about, is wrong.
Of course, there is more to it than just that and it is by far more complex.

I agree but some people do tend to go with the notion that killing is better than understanding or trying to help the unrepentant sinner, it's very difficult to try and sway someone who believes a penalty of death is the best solution for those who murder, regardless of the lack of merit in it and the lack of deterrant, sometimes it's easier to hate and to watch someone die than it is to let them live with what they have done and maybe come to some kind of understanding for the sin, for some repentance is not an option for a cardinal sin.

I'm very interested in the Jewish view point both of the literal translation of the bible whatever that is exactly, and the current views of Jews, I have seen evidence from fundemetalists mainly that only murder is wrong but I can't equate that absolutely with the view points of the majority in the abrahamic faiths so it leaves me at an impasse, I don't think it's a quesiton that can be answered, I think it's very subjective, but I was trying to get a sort of moral framework from a biblical perspective. I'd like to think that killing of any kind is against the teachings of God, but I can't help but be swayed by the division that exists so I can't come to any real frim conclusion.

Oddly in a way is quite heartening that I can't find an answer, that people are rarely willing to condone killing under a faith, and it shows in western culture.

I know many Islamic countries tend to go with an eye for an eye so I haven't really looked into it from there perspective, although I should, maybe tomorrow.

It's a fascinating basis for a theological thesis albeit I am not qualified to do the research(mostly because I'm not a believer) But I'm afraid anyway the internet is no place to do research on it, too much bias, from minority opinions. They shout so loudly but there voices are barely heard, that is as it should be I think.

 

[tomsnowman123]

All violence to stop? *shudder* That would be too painful for me.

Why would an end to violence bring pain to you? I guess you wouldn't be able to watch criminals be nerve gassed to death on TV (which is really disturbing, btw).