Vokarya's Workshop: Buildings

[Vokarya]

It's just "centre" over here and (I thought) in Commonwealth English.

I've actually considered changing Movie Theatre to Cinema just to get away from that particular problem in that one case. It's also slightly shorter and less North American-centric. What do you think?

 

[Vokarya]

More Corporate Store upgrades. I really like the idea of making Corporate Stores as upgrades to existing buildings, because it generally makes them a two-stage payoff. The first stage is immediate, and the second stage comes when the building that is being replaced is replaced by another. You get to keep the bonuses on the Corporate Store. This gives you an extra reason to build them later on in the game, and even more so if we can properly cause them to turn off under Post-Scarcity.

So these are the upgrades I was considering.

East West Traders Store: Upgrade of Market. Cut the initial +2 health, but add +25% gold and +1 Merchant slot. This makes the initial payoff the +3-15% food (depending on resources) of the Store, and then the +25% gold kicks in at Consumerism when the Market would normally be replaced by the Shopping District.

Emperors Clothing Store/Fashion House Boutique: Upgrade of Textile Mill. Here we have to really increase the amount of commerce given by these stores. They currently give +3% commerce per resource. I think this would need to be increased to about 8%. A Textile Mill grants a flat 5-15 commerce depending on resources, so a store that just grants a % bonus to commerce needs to have reasonably high numbers to be an improvement. We can see how it goes.

Creative Constructions Contractors: Upgrade of Construction Firm. Lower the hammer bonus to +4% per resource but add all of Construction Firm's bonuses. Then the real payoff is at Conglomerates where you get to keep Creative Construction's +40% building production along with Industrial Park's +50%. I find myself often underwhelmed by how little % bonuses to building production actually wind up being, so I think this would work here.

 

[<Nexus>]

I really like the idea of making Corporate Stores as upgrades to existing buildings, because it generally makes them a two-stage payoff.

I on the other hand don't really like it, because...

• It's an All or None thing. There should be an upgrade path for all Corporate Stores but that seems rather unlikely.
• Some upgrades don't make much sense: East West Traders Store: Upgrade of Market. Market will upgrade to Shopping District and Hypermarket anyway. So I don't see why it's good.
• I'd like to see things clear. "Messing up" the Building upgrade page with conditional buildings as civic buildings and corporate stores look just confusing to me.

All in all: I'd prefer keeping the corporate stores out of the upgrade chain. I liked it the first time you mentioned it but now I see it rather as a thing of complication.

I've actually considered changing Movie Theatre to Cinema

 

[Arakhor]

I've actually considered changing Movie Theatre to Cinema just to get away from that particular problem in that one case. It's also slightly shorter and less North American-centric. What do you think?

It's definitely shorter - I like it! (In the UK at least, you only ever go to the theatre if there's a stage and live actors.)

 

[Vokarya]

I on the other hand don't really like it, because...

• It's an All or None thing. There should be an upgrade path for all Corporate Stores but that seems rather unlikely.

What if we can do this? The only ones I haven't thought up an upgrade path for are Aluminum Co, Burgerworld, Moonbean, Standard Ethanol, and Wonka. In any case, if they aren't balanced, all we have to do is dial up or down the resource part of each store that doesn't/does upgrade until they are in balance.

• I'd like to see things clear. "Messing up" the Building upgrade page with conditional buildings as civic buildings and corporate stores look just confusing to me.

I don't have a problem with this. Some paths are always going to be "paths not taken". I also don't see why a building should be excluded from taking part in the replacement mechanic if it's reasonable.[/list]

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

It's been discussed before, but I've come around to the idea of liking a <bNoPower> tag for buildings, to give them the ability to only work in a city that does not have access to Power from other sources, mostly Three Gorges Dam/Fusion Power Plant, but also the Unlimited Power event. It would require some DLL coding. bNoPower would apply to Candlemaker and Power Plants, so that cities with clean power from a non-building source don't lose a citizen, aren't subject to negative effects (unhealth from Coal Plant, meltdown from Nuclear Plant, Dam Burst event from Hydro Plant) and can't waste hammers on building a power plant they don't need. Candlemaker would get both bNoPower and a replacement path.

I'm working on bNoPower but I need to understand how you plan to use it. I mean, this only allows the building to be built in a city where there's no power, that's easy. If the city has power from TGD or an event, you can't build a bNoPower building, that's OK. Also, I'd say you can't build it if the city is being disconnected from power grid via espionage, just to prevent troubles. But if you apply it to Power Plants, I'm afraid this will prevent plants from being upgraded: I mean, if a hydro plant has this tag, you can't build it where you have a Coal Plant. I don't think this is what you want, correct? I'm asking because a workaround for this problem seems rather tricky. I can try if you need it but it might require some time and some experiments.

 

[Vokarya]

I'm working on bNoPower but I need to understand how you plan to use it. I mean, this only allows the building to be built in a city where there's no power, that's easy. If the city has power from TGD or an event, you can't build a bNoPower building, that's OK. Also, I'd say you can't build it if the city is being disconnected from power grid via espionage, just to prevent troubles. But if you apply it to Power Plants, I'm afraid this will prevent plants from being upgraded: I mean, if a hydro plant has this tag, you can't build it where you have a Coal Plant. I don't think this is what you want, correct? I'm asking because a workaround for this problem seems rather tricky. I can try if you need it but it might require some time and some experiments.

Power Plants and Candlemaker are the only buildings that I can see using this tag. I think checking for external power, either Three Gorges Dam/Fusion Plant or event power, is all that is actually required, and that <bNoPower> doesn't need to check for a power plant in the city, because all the buildings with the tag will be part of the power plant upgrade chain. I definitely don't want to block upgrades.

Is that possible to do?

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Power Plants and Candlemaker are the only buildings that I can see using this tag. I think checking for external power, either Three Gorges Dam/Fusion Plant or event power, is all that is actually required, and that <bNoPower> doesn't need to check for a power plant in the city, because all the buildings with the tag will be part of the power plant upgrade chain. I definitely don't want to block upgrades.

Is that possible to do?

Yes, it's possible, I think I've found an easier workaround in the code; it will work for TGD and FP, I think it should also work for Unlimited Power event. Hopefully I can release it soon.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

TechCommerceModifiers works, but it is not currently being USED. The only uses of this ability were deleted in rev773. If you add a TechCommerceModifiers to another building, it displays properly.

If you want to see what I am seeing, insert this snippet of code into the XML for any building. I picked the Fire Pit. This should give a building +15% gold and +15% food upon researching The Wheel.

            <TechCommerceModifiers>
                <TechCommerceModifier>
                    <PrereqTech>TECH_THE_WHEEL</PrereqTech>
                    <TechCommerce>
                        <iCommerce>15</iCommerce>
                    </TechCommerce>
                </TechCommerceModifier>
            </TechCommerceModifiers>
            <TechYieldModifiers>
                <TechYieldModifier>
                    <PrereqTech>TECH_THE_WHEEL</PrereqTech>
                    <TechYield>
                        <iYield>15</iYield>
                    </TechYield>
                </TechYieldModifier>
            </TechYieldModifiers>

Now when I load up the game, the Civilopedia entry for the Fire Pit, the mouseover text for The Wheel, and the tech splash screen for The Wheel all show the +15% gold but not the +15% food.
View attachment 471070View attachment 471071View attachment 471072View attachment 471073

But when I finish researching The Wheel, now the +15% food and +15% gold are both reflected in the mouseover text for the Fire Pit and the city's stats.

View attachment 471074 View attachment 471075

What should be happening is that both the +% food and the +% gold should be displayed everywhere that the +% gold is currently displayed.

Does that explain what I want to see better?

I think I've fixed it, it will be in the next upload.

 

[Fozman]

Pursuant to what I said above about food distributors, what about giving Grocer and Supermarket +% food bonuses? Like this:

• Grocer loses the flat +1 food and the commerce bonuses and gains +10% food.
• Supermarket loses the flat +2 food and the commerce bonuses and gains +10% food, plus an additional +10% with Power. So if you upgrade a Grocer to a Supermarket, you get an immediate bonus in health from meat resources, but you have to power the city to get a food bonus.

The thread about "Actual Effects" made me think about this for a moment. What about all the civs with UBs based on these buildings? (Grocer in particular.) They are all still using the +1 system instead of +10%. I suppose there are some trade-offs going on here, but I can see certain situations where it would be very unattractive to upgrade. Have you given any thought to changing the yields from the UBs?

 

[<Nexus>]

Have you given any thought to changing the yields from the UBs?

I'm sure Vokarya WILL update any related UBs.

If you think of UBs in MCP than I WILL update those, just need some time...

 

[aggri1]

I really like the idea of making Corporate Stores as upgrades to existing buildings

I don't. I agree with Zeta that it's confusing. The effects become very convoluted.

And what happens if the corporation leaves? I lose the East-West store's functionality, but can't necessarily build the Shopping District yet. So I've got to 'rebuild' the Market, if that's even possible with an East-West store present? Or does the market re-appear in the building list?

What happens when the market's successor (Shopping District) comes along? Presume that I can then build the Shopping District even with an East-West store present, getting the bonuses of the market (as part of the East-West store) in addition to the bonuses of the Shopping District (that's what you meant with "you get to keep the bonuses on the Corporate Store").

I'd much rather the corporation stores remain outside of any upgrade chain.

Either that, or get rid of the corporation stores themselves altogether, and just give the Market or Shopping District some bonuses when the corporation is present (BTS had no corporation stores). That would be much simpler, and allows considerable flexibility.

Cheers,
A.

 

[<Nexus>]

And what happens if the corporation leaves? I lose the East-West store's functionality, but can't necessarily build the Shopping District yet. So I've got to 'rebuild' the Market, if that's even possible with an East-West store present? Or does the market re-appear in the building list?

A replaced buildings begin functioning if the higher building disappears.

 

[Vokarya]

A replaced buildings begin functioning if the higher building disappears.

This is correct. I just tested. A Corporate Store that loses its prerequisite corp gets the red fist of a non-working building, and any buildings it replaced are reactivated.

For example: A city has Red Curtains, Cinema, and Red Curtains Theatre. The RC Theatre replaces the Cinema. Now if Mapster was to expand into the city, since it competes with Red Curtains, Red Curtains is removed, the RC Theatre is deactivated (red fist), and the Cinema reappears on the building list.

I really don't see what is too complex about this. It simplifies the building list by reducing two buildings to one if the proper corporation is present. It also gives a benefit in the late game for choosing not to run a "No Corporations" civic, which is going to include Post-Scarcity. Also, it is essential to making Ultimate Soldiers work the way I want it to; it gives you better soldiers immediately, by giving +4 XP from the Trainer, without wrecking the XP curve in the long run, by making US non-cumulative with Combat Simulators.

 

[Vokarya]

Well... a ski paradise also comes to my mind. Do we want 2 buildings? Vacation resort under X latitude with its current coastal requirements and Ski Paradise above X latitude with Peak and Snow/Tundra in vicinity? Just another idea.

Just commenting on this. I'm doing an index of the buttons. When I repacked the FPK files, I organized all the buttons into atlases to speed up the mod loading, and there were some already-existing atlases. I found a ski resort button in the files. So if anyone wants to work this into a modmod, use Afforess_Atlas.dds,3,14.

I'm not sure how necessary Ski Resort is, but it gets a point for not being trivial; as a replacement for Hotel, it extends a building line rather than starting a new one. As far as I'm concerned, trivial is an enemy. Of course, trivial is somewhat relative; the early buildings of AND like Apiary, Candlemaker, and Wheelwright aren't completely trivial compared to buildings like Granary or Forge. They are things for a new city to do while it starts to grow.

 

[<Nexus>]

Just commenting on this. I'm doing an index of the buttons. When I repacked the FPK files, I organized all the buttons into atlases to speed up the mod loading, and there were some already-existing atlases. I found a ski resort button in the files. So if anyone wants to work this into a modmod, use Afforess_Atlas.dds,3,14.

THX
So if you don't want want to do it than I will.

 

[nionios]

Factory gives 4 base unhealthiness.With Coal it's +2 and Oil +2 additionally totalling 8.If you build Mfg plant (gives +2 base unhealthiness), it replaces Factory so you reduce unhealthiness by 6.
Is that intentional?
Correct me If I'm wrong,please.

 

[nionios]

Factory gives 4 base unhealthiness.With Coal it's +2 and Oil +2 additionally totalling 8.If you build Mfg plant (gives +2 base unhealthiness), it replaces Factory so you reduce unhealthiness by 6.
Is that intentional?
Correct me If I'm wrong,please.

I've checked and confirmed it.It's difficult for me to accept it because it looks too good to be true.

 

[Vokarya]

I was looking at the UB's to check if there were any others that need updating. I know about the Assembly Plant and the Standing Stone UB's.

I think Ziggurat should be a Ceremonial Altar replacement instead of a Courthouse replacement. Courthouse replacements are too common (4 in the core AND) and I like to use other buildings. Ziggurat is currently an early Courthouse PLUS an additional -25% maintenance, which I think tramples too much on Rathaus.

If Ziggurat was a permanent, non-replaceable building with +1 (plus an additional conditional +1 from Hemp and +1 from Divine Cult), +1 culture, 1 Priest slot and -15% maintenance, I don't think that would be too bad.

 

[<Nexus>]

Sounds good.