Vokarya's Workshop: Buildings

[Rezca]

Solar Plant doesn't replace Hydro Plant?



They do the same thing though, clean power and all that - but Solar isn't stating it'll overwrite and replace the Hydro Plant, so if I did for whatever reason build that Solar Plant, I'd have two employed citizens with no practical gain

 

[Vokarya]

Solar Plant doesn't replace Hydro Plant?

View attachment 396036

They do the same thing though, clean power and all that - but Solar isn't stating it'll overwrite and replace the Hydro Plant, so if I did for whatever reason build that Solar Plant, I'd have two employed citizens with no practical gain

I think it's better to make those two mutually exclusive. They do have the exact same benefits, but Solar Plant is more expensive, so if you have the choice, you'd be better off building the Hydro Plant. Hydro also needs to replace Nuclear. Adding Nuclear to Hydro just employs another citizen and risks meltdowns.

 

[Samson]

Is the Knights Stable (+3 Exp) a downgrade for the Mongolian Ger (+4 Exp)? And a required one for building the Royal Tournament and Drill Yard.

I have not yet got to that bit of the game, I am just going from the tech tree.

 

[Vokarya]

Is the Knights Stable (+3 Exp) a downgrade for the Mongolian Ger (+4 Exp)? And a required one for building the Royal Tournament and Drill Yard.

I have not yet got to that bit of the game, I am just going from the tech tree.

It is. I have noticed it before, but we did not come up with a consensus on the best way to fix it. I think this solution will work, but it's in three parts:

• Ger only gives +3 XP to Mounted units.
• Ger does NOT give the usual -1 health from Stable.
• Ger does NOT get replaced when Knight's Stable is built. The two buildings coexist until the end of the Industrial Era. This allows Mongolia to train Mounted units with +6 XP throughout the game and makes them the premier civilization for Mounted units.

 

[Vokarya]

Since I'm going to be restructuring Artesian Well and no longer making it upgrade to Cannery, I think we can pull back Cannery and Food Processing Plant's food production a little (as they don't have to maintain parity with the Well any longer). In a typical game, you get a lot of food out of these buildings from resources so the innate food is kind of unnecessary on top of that, but I would like for them to have a small innate bonus so that they have some use even for a civilization with no resources. I think it would be fair to reduce Cannery's innate food bonus to +1 and Food Processing Plant's bonus to +3.

 

[<Nexus>]

It is. I have noticed it before, but we did not come up with a consensus on the best way to fix it. I think this solution will work, but it's in three parts:

• Ger only gives +3 XP to Mounted units.
• Ger does NOT give the usual -1 health from Stable.
• Ger does NOT get replaced when Knight's Stable is built. The two buildings coexist until the end of the Industrial Era. This allows Mongolia to train Mounted units with +6 XP throughout the game and makes them the premier civilization for Mounted units.

How didn't we come up with this solution earlier?!
Simple. Clean. Elegant. Realistic.

Groundwater Well is partway between Farm and Town in how much it can yield. Farm tops out at 5 food/2 commerce, Town (with route) maxes out at 1 food/1 hammer/9 commerce, and Groundwater Well's maximum yield is 4 food/5 commerce. So I don't see it as that bad of a hybrid.

Besides, if I remember correctly, the last time we took out an improvement (Olive Orchard), it utterly wrecked saved games. So I'm not in a hurry to pull any improvements.

I understand your point of view, just don't know how others play the game but I don't usually build "hybrid" improvements.
Removing the Groundwater Well would brake save games just as much as removing Silk Farms
Anyway it's not a big issue.

 

[jackelgull]

I have an idea for casino- it can give one happiness per 10% on top of its other benefits and the hammer penalty can be lowered to -5%.

 

[<Nexus>]

I have an idea for casino- it can give one happiness per 10%

AFAIK it doesn't work that way. You can only specify , and maybe
But if it is doable, than I agree

 

[jackelgull]

This has actually been done before in another mod

 

[<Nexus>]

I've been thinking about Casino and have two more ideas

1)
Casinos are taxed by the government, right? So Casino could use the tag +1 for Palace. So the more Casinos you build in your empire, the more income your Capital has.

2)
My second idea much more complicated but would be more fun as well
You could take part of the gambling every 10 turns. An event would pop up offering you to risk some of your money. You can either lose that money or win a little extra interest based on the number of your Casinos. Every Casino would mean +1% interest.
Chance of winning could be based on civ's handicap level. It could use the value in <iNoTechTradeModifier> (it's 100% for Settler, 70% on Noble, and only 20% on Deity).

An example:
You play on Emperor, have 50 Casinos and risk 100.
You have 40% chance to make it 150 or 60% to lose it all.


How does it sound. Maybe too complicated I guess...

 

[flitz]

AFAIK it doesn't work that way. You can only specify , and maybe
But if it is doable, than I agree

I think it's a little weird. The money slider basically means taxing, i.e. higher state income, how would a casino profit from this ? Also, I consider the money slider as more of a last-resort kind of thing, you increase it only as much as necessary to turn in a net profit, or more if you are currently saving up on money for something in particular. But to get a reward in the form of happiness for it seems a little counter intuitive to me.

I've been thinking about Casino and have two more ideas

1)
Casinos are taxed by the government, right? So Casino could use the tag +1 for Palace. So the more Casinos you build in your empire, the more income your Capital has.

2)
My second idea much more complicated but would be more fun as well
You could take part of the gambling every 10 turns. An event would pop up offering you to risk some of your money. You can either lose that money or win a little extra interest based on the number of your Casinos. Every Casino would mean +1% interest.
Chance of winning could be based on civ's handicap level. It could use the value in <iNoTechTradeModifier> (it's 100% for Settler, 70% on Noble, and only 20% on Deity).

An example:
You play on Emperor, have 50 Casinos and risk 100.
You have 40% chance to make it 150 or 60% to lose it all.


How does it sound. Maybe too complicated I guess...

Sounds very gamey. Also, please no more pop-ups than necessary

 

[<Nexus>]

I think it's a little weird. The money slider basically means taxing, i.e. higher state income, how would a casino profit from this ? Also, I consider the money slider as more of a last-resort kind of thing, you increase it only as much as necessary to turn in a net profit, or more if you are currently saving up on money for something in particular. But to get a reward in the form of happiness for it seems a little counter intuitive to me.

You're right. I have similar feeling. I think something like +0.1/ citizen would be more realistic, but it's not doable AFAIK.

 

[Arakhor]

Doesn't the Aqueduct add something like 0.1 health per citizen? Presumably, however that's done can also be done with commerce.

 

[<Nexus>]

Doesn't the Aqueduct add something like 0.1 health per citizen? Presumably, however that's done can also be done with commerce.

Not exactly AFAIK. There is a tag that defines +x /citizen and an other for +x /citizen, but that's all. No tags for +/citizen and especially not for +/ citizen. Such tag would require dll work from the devs.

 

[<Nexus>]

As Vokarya said that he wants more buildings in the trans-human era I keep brainstorming...

Reseach Matrix
Description:
The Research Matrix integrates all scientific research into one, civilization wide web allowing researchers to easily co-operate even from great distances.
Effect:

• Requires 4 Research Labs to build 1 Research Matrix
• Gives +1 for Research Matrix

I know it sounds weird when you think of it: 100RM would mean +100 for each RM, but you would need 400 cities for that.
As it is a trans-human era building I think it's okay to break the "Don't get rich get richer" rule. When you are in the trans-human era you want to win the game finally (maybe you already did win the game technically), so boosting up large civs (which is natural a tendency for human players) is okay IMO.

 

[Rezca]

Does the Workhouse really need the "Employs 1 Citizen" penalty on it? The +1 added onto that makes the +15% production fairly meaningless most of the time, and it obsoletes too quickly (in my experience) to really find any sort of practical use.

 

[Vokarya]

Does the Workhouse really need the "Employs 1 Citizen" penalty on it? The +1 added onto that makes the +15% production fairly meaningless most of the time, and it obsoletes too quickly (in my experience) to really find any sort of practical use.

That was Afforess' idea. I think you're right that employs 1 citizen is pretty harsh. Before that was changed (and Workhouse was +1 unhappy and +1 unhealth) it used to keep me in Public Works until Industrialism.

 

[Vokarya]

As Vokarya said that he wants more buildings in the trans-human era I keep brainstorming...

Reseach Matrix
Description:
The Research Matrix integrates all scientific research into one, civilization wide web allowing researchers to easily co-operate even from great distances.
Effect:

• Requires 4 Research Labs to build 1 Research Matrix
• Gives +1 for Research Matrix

I know it sounds weird when you think of it: 100RM would mean +100 for each RM, but you would need 400 cities for that.
As it is a trans-human era building I think it's okay to break the "Don't get rich get richer" rule. When you are in the trans-human era you want to win the game finally (maybe you already did win the game technically), so boosting up large civs (which is natural a tendency for human players) is okay IMO.

I think you've managed to reinvent the Info Net that we already have. That counts Computer Networks, not Research Laboratories, but I think the mechanic would be a better fit there. I can appreciate the sentiment, though. There is only one Transhuman Era research building (Quantum Lab) and the other eras get two or more.

There are some areas where the Transhuman Era is really lacking. Besides research buildings, I see a lack of culture buildings. The only Transhuman buildings that provide culture are the Park Arcology and Paradise Garden, Network Node, and the Arcology line. I'm not exactly clear how Arcologies add culture, though.

 

[Vokarya]

Here is another question I came across when looking at buildings (having a spreadsheet really helps). Does anyone know why Ports generate Culture points? This feels out of place. I can get flavoring the bonus as immigrants or travelers, but I really think buildings should focus as much as possible; for example, Ports would focus on raw commerce. I think it also diminishes culture buildings if non-culture buildings generate culture too; either the culture buildings have to be kicked upwards or the non-culture buildings are better uses of building time.

 

[Rezca]

Here is another question I came across when looking at buildings (having a spreadsheet really helps). Does anyone know why Ports generate Culture points? This feels out of place. I can get flavoring the bonus as immigrants or travelers, but I really think buildings should focus as much as possible; for example, Ports would focus on raw commerce. I think it also diminishes culture buildings if non-culture buildings generate culture too; either the culture buildings have to be kicked upwards or the non-culture buildings are better uses of building time.

I didn't quite get the need for culture on them either.