Vokarya's Workshop: Buildings

[<Nexus>]

Could Monument inherit Standing Stone's +1 with Divine Cult?

 

[Vokarya]

Could Monument inherit Standing Stone's +1 with Divine Cult?

I don't think that the Monument needs an additional bonus, as there are lots of other happiness sources available. I also think by the Renaissance you should be out of Divine Cult and into another religious civic.

 

[<Nexus>]

I don't think that the Monument needs an additional bonus, as there are lots of other happiness sources available. I also think by the Renaissance you should be out of Divine Cult and into another religious civic.

Yes, in theory...
But the unhappiness for pop overcrowding penalty from Monarchy can only be handled with Divine Cult.
Earlier DC had no use; now it's the only option for larger empires

 

[Rezca]

Yes, in theory...
But the unhappiness for pop overcrowding penalty from Monarchy can only be handled with Divine Cult.
Earlier DC had no use; now it's the only option for larger empires

I'd like to see some earlier civics like Divine Cult still be viable in the latter stages of the game personally. Not necessarily competing with modern civics, but still being at least worth using if you'd so choose. Excluding the Default Civics, of course

Feudalism was your 'default civic' in Master of Orion 2..... That's a long time to be running a Feudalistic empire, into the space faring age


Outside of 'roleplaying' a specific kind of empire/game, I generally end up running the same small selection of civics every game
Think I used Corporate welfare for the first time this current game, and actually spent pretty much the whole game in Guilds for the -33% maintenance on corporations, even if its Civic Building had obsoleted! That was certainly a first.

 

[<Nexus>]

I'd like to see some earlier civics like Divine Cult still be viable in the latter stages of the game personally. Not necessarily competing with modern civics, but still being at least worth using if you'd so choose. Excluding the Default Civics, of course

Feudalism was your 'default civic' in Master of Orion 2..... That's a long time to be running a Feudalistic empire, into the space faring age

1. "Feudalism" in Moo2 was not a "civic" but rather a "trait", something you cannot change.
2. "Feudalism" in Moo2 represented not only Feudalism, but Vassalage, Bourgeoisie, Nobility and (I think most importantly) Monarchy.Some of these are still viable in latter eras

Outside of 'roleplaying' a specific kind of empire/game, I generally end up running the same small selection of civics every game
Think I used Corporate welfare for the first time this current game, and actually spent pretty much the whole game in Guilds for the -33% maintenance on corporations, even if its Civic Building had obsoleted! That was certainly a first.

Ditto!

Government: Mostly Monarchy
Economy: After Slavery I use Coinage since I have a lot of Gold and Silver in my large empire.
Military: Pacifism half the game for the GPP bonus; other half (or rather 30~40%) civic with the highest +Xp bonus.
Religion: earlier it was Prophets than Free Church, never DC or Intolerant; now it's DC all the time.
Welfare: Church. Many religions -> many monasteries -> many bonus

 

[Rezca]

1. "Feudalism" in Moo2 was not a "civic" but rather a "trait", something you cannot change.
2. "Feudalism" in Moo2 represented not only Feudalism, but Vassalage, Bourgeoisie, Nobility and (I think most importantly) Monarchy.Some of these are still viable in latter eras

Ditto!

Government: Mostly Monarchy
Economy: After Slavery I use Coinage since I have a lot of Gold and Silver in my large empire.
Military: Pacifism half the game for the GPP bonus; other half (or rather 30~40%) civic with the highest +Xp bonus.
Religion: earlier it was Prophets than Free Church, never DC or Intolerant; now it's DC all the time.
Welfare: Church. Many religions -> many monasteries -> many bonus

My most-used civics tend to be:

Government: Monarchy/Federation

Rule: Patrician or Senate; Single Party or Technocracy in the late-game (Usually Technocracy)

Economy: Slavery as long as possible, or Coinage/Guilds. I generally end up in Regulated later on.

Military: Standing Army / Volunteer Army. Lately beeing going MAD simply because the AI never uses it, and I want to make stuff explode

Welfare: Church or Socialized

Foreign: Protectionism if I'm looking for production and don't care what my neighbors think of me; otherwise Interventionism: The "one right civic to run" in this category more often than not. Why is Redevelopment even there? If you're using Revolutions or Barbarian Civs, or even have Colonies from Vassal States, then this is a suicidal civic to run.

The immense spike in costs is astronomical, only to get a meager diplo boost that amounts to almost nothing with some worthless civilizations that aren't even relevant to the game anymore (Usually OCC fools that broke off from some idiotically placed tundra colony) It's never been worth using, though while I can see the potential benefit (Making less well off nations like you more and thus more likely to trade with you / vote for you) - it fails to deliver on that. The boost is not enough to sway any minds mmost of the time, and the nations it 'helps' would never be able to do much for you diplomatically.

Unless you're playing a normal game without the possibility of the numerous tiny nations in the game, I just don't see this as a worthwhile civic to run.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Why no love for Public Works? Gives some decent health bonuses, and happiness in the 6 biggest cities!

Although the upkeep is high, I feel its worth it.

 

[Rezca]

Why no love for Public Works? Gives some decent health bonuses, and happiness in the 6 biggest cities!

Although the upkeep is high, I feel its worth it.

Ah forgot about that one ><

I use Public Works at times, though its Civic Building comes a bit late, obsoletes before it can be of much use, and the Citizen Employ penalty is the worst.

Usually I either don't need the extra health, or can't afford the upkeep
Can't remember what the case was this latest game though, don't think I used it this time around.

 

[gay_Aleks]

I stick more for the bonuses towards most of the health buildings like Sewer System and Aqueduct; rather useful when your cities suddenly explode in population.

Worker speed is also nice.

 

[<Nexus>]

In the Bugs thread IPEX explained a problem with Shale Plant. A possible solution would be to change it replacing not Coal Plant but Oil Refinery. SP's bonus over OR could be not requiring Oil. This would also help in preventing Japan's Oil Products proliferation.


Sumerian Zigguarat is currently a Courthouse replacement. We have several CH replacements in RAND, and even more in MCP. Also, historically it was a religious building, not a governmental, so how about this: replace Ceremonial Altar with some maintenance bonus and not upgrading to Temples?


I also noticed that French Salon gives you +25%, while Observatory +8.
I also have the feeling that Salon is not a very good Observatory replacement. It was a place for nobles, while Observatory is for astronomers (scientists). What else could it replace? Opera? Theater? I don't know...

 

[aggri1]

I notice that the Public Transportation REPLACES Paved Roads. Is this intentional? Seems a little odd. If it is intentional, then the massive drop in commerce should be addressed: the +X per connected foreign city is missing from Pub' Trans'.

Personally I'd rather just NOT have the replacement happen, let Paved Roads remain.

Cheers, A.

 

[Vokarya]

I notice that the Public Transportation REPLACES Paved Roads. Is this intentional? Seems a little odd. If it is intentional, then the massive drop in commerce should be addressed: the +X per connected foreign city is missing from Pub' Trans'.

Personally I'd rather just NOT have the replacement happen, let Paved Roads remain.

Cheers, A.

The replacement is intentional; I don't want there to be too many "orphan" buildings without connections, either by requirement or replacement, to other buildings, and I think that for a civilization to build Public Transportation, then paving the roads is pretty trivial. I will copy the commerce bonus from Paved Roads to Public Transportation and Personal Rapid Train. Paved Roads, Seaport and up, Hotel and up, and Toll House/Customs House are the only buildings that currently provide foreign commerce.

 

[Vokarya]

I think Salon is an Observatory replacement because there are very few other cultural/scientific Renaissance Era buildings that could be converted into the Salon. I think Art Gallery would be a better replacement with +1 free Scientist instead of the current +1 free Artist. Salons are, at least theoretically, both artistic and scientific so I think this is the best fit.

 

[<Nexus>]

I think Salon is an Observatory replacement because there are very few other cultural/scientific Renaissance Era buildings that could be converted into the Salon. I think Art Gallery would be a better replacement with +1 free Scientist instead of the current +1 free Artist. Salons are, at least theoretically, both artistic and scientific so I think this is the best fit.

Art Gallery sounds pretty good.

 

[<Nexus>]

I think (...)adding small stability bonuses to the Village Hall line will bring things under control, or at least make revolutions not quite as vicious.

I just wonder if the it would help the AI too. I didn't see it building anytime a VH line building (maybe it's just me?)
Also the huge maintenance penalty growing along with the line makes those buildings rather counter-productive.
I'd suggest to change the VH line by:

• replacing the huge maintenance penalty with a small maintenance bonus (+5/+10/+15/+20/+25 or just a flat 10%)
• remove/decrease the free specialist to balance the above
• add the rev bonus you feel right

 

[Samson]

I just wonder if the it would help the AI too. I didn't see it building anytime a VH line building (maybe it's just me?)
Also the huge maintenance penalty growing along with the line makes those buildings rather counter-productive.
I'd suggest to change the VH line by:

• replacing the huge maintenance penalty with a small maintenance bonus (+5/+10/+15/+20/+25 or just a flat 10%)
• remove/decrease the free specialist to balance the above
• add the rev bonus you feel right

Judging from the frequency that captured cities have one of the Village Hall line it seems to me that the AI builds them pretty frequently. Maybe that is just me?

 

[jackelgull]

I hate the VH line very very much. The free specialists aren't worth the maintenance, and in the late game when I have a size 98 capital, the extra maintenance can be brutal. Can't the maintenance increase simply be a flat out -10 gold, -20 etc. As it is, the village hall line is rarely worth building.

 

[Noyyau]

I actually build them almost everywhere. In the classical-medieval era, when usually I have not enough population to spare some for specialists, that free specialist is invariably an engineer. Extra production is always good.
Later buildings that give more specialists, one is a merchant or noble, and that usually covers the maintenance costs (or nearly so).

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I actually build them almost everywhere. In the classical-medieval era, when usually I have not enough population to spare some for specialists, that free specialist is invariably an engineer. Extra production is always good.
Later buildings that give more specialists, one is a merchant or noble, and that usually covers the maintenance costs (or nearly so).

Same here

 

[jackelgull]

I actually build them almost everywhere. In the classical-medieval era, when usually I have not enough population to spare some for specialists, that free specialist is invariably an engineer. Extra production is always good.
Later buildings that give more specialists, one is a merchant or noble, and that usually covers the maintenance costs (or nearly so).

Well, I employ corporations- lot of them. I have Sid's Sushi, One of the meat one's, Mining Inc., and Mapster so maintenance costs are really high for me. Plus I get guilds. So it's probably my play style that makes the village hall line suicidal to build.