Vox Populi Congress Proposal Workshop

[grallon]

Hi,

not sure if this is the proper venue for this, but since I've returned to Civ5 & this mod, I've reacquainted myself with the permanent irritation of watching the AI rush headlong into the future. For those of use who like to take their time, especially in the ancient eras, and research everything, this is quite aggravating. I've fiddled around with the values in the Civ5TechSpeeds.xml, as well as those in this mod's own TechCostSweeps.sql - to no avail - the AI still goes straight through, ignoring anything that isn't raw advantage. It then occurred to me that if this mod were to introduce new 'techs' called something like 'intermediary period' in between each era, forcing those to have all previous era techs as prerequisites and in turn, being the mandatory prerequisite for all the techs of the next era, we could then jack up the values of those specific columns only in TechCostSweeps.sql, as a way to slow down the mad rush.

 

[hokath]

That's just the game, grallon. If the AI techs faster than you do, you can lower the difficulty or change their bonuses?

 

[statusquo]

It then occurred to me that if this mod were to introduce new 'techs' called something like 'intermediary period' in between each era, forcing those to have all previous era techs as prerequisites and in turn, being the mandatory prerequisite for all the techs of the next era, we could then jack up the values of those specific columns only in TechCostSweeps.sql, as a way to slow down the mad rush.

Well, i just had idea, kinda like reverse eurekas.. i mean, it most likely be too "develomepent expensive", but its just an idea...
What if, to progress to the next research, you would first need to make some "signature unit/building" tied to current research..
For example.. You invent Iron working, but in order to be able to research Steel, you need to build one forge..
That would made sense from logical point of view, as you cant make steel without a forge
That would kinda slow things up, and kinda in small way restrict military beelining,
as you would be forced to research some current era research, while building requirement for the next leavel research..
Thou, im not sure, how AI is smart, can it just juggle researches, like switch for something else for few turns, to not waster time..

As i said, that was just na idea, that come to my mind reading grallon post

 

[phantom22]

I like to set research to 900 on gamespeedchanges.sql on marathon speed.

It slows research to a crawl for everyone including you so it may not have the intended results you are looking for. It does make it so that a marathon game takes a couple days to finish. I've had several major complete wars within the same era doing this which is fun. It throws balance way off, usually in your favor, so that may help you some.

 

[grallon]

I managed to get something approaching what I wanted with these values in Gamespeeds (epic):

360m (30y) x 90t (2700y) - 5000BC - 2300BC - Old Ancient
300m (25y) x 70t (1750y) - 2300Bc - 450BC - Near Ancient
180m (15y) x 70t (1050y) - 450BC - 600AD - Classical
120m (10y) x 75t (750y) - 600Ad - 1350AD - Middle-Ages
60m (5y) x 80t (400y) - 1350AD - 1750AD - Renaissance
30m (2.5y) x 80t (200y) - 1750AD - 1950AD - Industrial Age
12m (1y) x 70t (70y) - 1950AD - 2020AD - Atomic Age
6m (6m) x 160t (80y) - 2020AD - 2100AD - Information Age

and these in techcosts:

(0, 20),
(1, 40),
(2, 80),
(3, 320),
(4, 400),
(5, 800),
(6, 1200),
(7, 2400),
(8, 3600),
(9, 4800),
(10, 5150),
(11, 8100),
(12, 11000),
(13, 13000),
(14, 16000),
(15, 19100),
(16, 23400),
(17, 24450),
(18, 28550);

yesterday I was first to enter the Middle-Ages in 760AD - with most of the building completed. I don't really care about anything past the Renaissance really - game becomes too slow by then.

 

[Tonas1997]

I'd love for people here to get eyes on my sanctions rework that moves it away from WC, and turns it into a diplomatic modifier akin to denouncing, but with more practical effects. Mostly trying to assess the technical feasibility of such a change: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sanctions-as-a-diplomatic-action.698087/

 

[usadefcon1]

Speaking of feasiblity, is it possilbe to require attackers to defeat the unit stationed in the city to capture it? (after city defenses have been destroyed)

 

[notaspambot]

Another couple of proposals, both relatively straightforward, although this doesn't necessarily preclude controversy. Please feel free to provide feedback on any of them. Both would be considered complex proposals if proposed.

1. Naval units no longer share damage from attacks on the city when garrisoned:
Naval units are currently in a lose-lose situation when it comes to garrisoning undefended/newly conquered cities; they don't provide any CS, but they do take damage from attacks, leaving them open to getting oneshot by ranged units in the later stages of the game. This change is designed to protect naval units from being destroyed by ranged attacks, although it will still not save them from melee units simply conquering the city.

2. Upgraded units gain an experience floor equal to the experience granted to new units by the city owning its tile:
This essentially makes the barracks line of buildings work for upgraded units as well as newly trained ones. The main focus here is a player experience issue, as it can feel bad to keep around units that have served you diligently for millennia, but still stuck at 0 XP. In terms of balance, this buffs non-warmongers that don't make use of their militaries, as well as players that gold-buy their units, as this negates their experience penalty upon reaching the next tier.

 

[azum4roll]

You're supposed to disband the inexperienced unit and train a new one. Upgrading units needs a nerf, not a buff.

 

[gozar]

In terms of realism, if an existing unit is being upgraded to use a new technology, I think there is an argument to be made that their upgrade process would probably include an abbreviated training (assuming they have barracks etc. in the city) and that would confer some experience. Conversely, an existing unit that has lots of combat experience should probably lose some experience upon upgrade as many of the tactics and coordination they have worked out will no longer be as relevant. Conversion to the mean.

I am not sure I like this in terms of gameplay though. This would nerf warmongers who are already too weak in the AI hands IMO.

 

[msw1]

Not sure if this is a gameplay feature or a bug. But something I find really annoying is that the benefits of some pantheons can be lost by conquering a city. Probably the most common case is as follows: I settle a city, take God of War/Defense/Expanse (all common warmonger pantheons which this applies to), rush to take my neighbor's capital before settling a second city, and all of the sudden I don't benefit from my pantheon anymore. The only way to fix it is to settle another city or found a religion, so that the majority of your cities have your pantheon. On quick or standard speed that may not matter too much but on marathon speed it's really annoying. It would make sense to me that conquering a city before having founded a religion spreads your pantheon to that city automatically, just as founding a city before founding a religion brings the pantheon automatically.

 

[azum4roll]

That doesn't really make sense. Why would the citizens from another civ convert to your pantheon?

 

[msw1]

You conquered the city. It makes sense that the conquering tribal civ would force the surviving citizens to worship their god.

 

[azum4roll]

That's what missionaries and inquisitors do.

 

[msw1]

You can't make missionaries or inquisitors before founding a religion.

 

[azum4roll]

So you can't spread a pantheon other than settling. Makes sense here.

 

[FinMc]

How is everyone finding the supply cap situation?

I've played a game without a supply reduction mod-mod and I think the supply situation will need to be revisited. Playing warmonger Venice (not very optimized build, my religion sucks and I didn't go imperialism to mix things up, I have avoided most +supply buffs generally) and I'm pushing 200 unit cap in early Atomic.

I do have a number of mod-mods, so maybe that's it? But it feels like the supply cap is creeping up too high again. I don't think games should go above ~120 ever, just too many clicks...

 

[msw1]

Why should I lose all benefits of my pantheon because I conquered a city? And then magically get it back after settling a city? It's not how founded religions work and it doesn't make sense from a gameplay or roleplay perspective.

 

[CppMaster]

Why should I lose all benefits of my pantheon because I conquered a city? And then magically get it back after settling a city? It's not how founded religions work and it doesn't make sense from a gameplay or roleplay perspective.

I agree, it's gamey doesn't make much sense.

 

[azum4roll]

It's not how founded religions work

That's exactly how it works, until you convert the conquered city.