VW cheated on emissions tests

Where possible I accelerate foot-to-the-floor in second gear to get up to the desired speed (jump to third to keep accelerating past 80kph), then skip-shift to top gear once I'm at speed, as I was taught by my instructor when I was learning. I was told this method of rapid acceleration in a low gear to cruising speed is the most fuel efficient because you spend less time on the accelerator pedal and use your revs more effectively.

The AA don't agree.

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/drive-smart.html

Easy does it: drive smoothly, accelerate gently and read the road ahead to avoid unnecessary braking

Change up earlier: don't labour the engine but try changing up at an engine speed of around 2,000 rpm in a diesel car or around 2,500 rpm in a petrol car. This can make such a difference that all cars in the future are likely to be fitted with a 'Gear Shift indicator' light to show the most efficient gear change points.

Now. I don't say the AA are right. But their rule of thumb doesn't agree with what your post suggests.

'Course, one of the most fuel efficient things to do is coasting in neutral. But for some reason people, and the AA, tell me I don't have full control of my vehicle if I do this. I think they're mistaken. Doing a lot of coasting involves a lot of reading the road well. And figuring out the down hill bits. As well as paying close attention to what's coming up behind you, so you don't annoy them.
 
I totally to not get that chart, though I am sure it makes sense. Here is the fuel efficiency for my old car, in a way that I find easier to read. It says that the engine is most efficient between 3 and 4k rpm, so the most efficient way to accelerate is to use full throttle within this rev range. I do wonder what the shape of this graph is for modern fuel injected cars.

mgb-dyno-sheet.jpg
It looks like your most efficient spot is around 3000 rpm, which also coincides with the maximum torque. In general, you want to maintain peak torque for the greatest efficiency. But that can vary somewhat based on the characteristics of the engine.

The x axis of the other graph is the rpm. The y axis is fhe BMEP in bar (which is proportional to torque). So the chart is showing a "fuel island" where the top of the island is the most efficient place to operate the engine.
 
Define 'directly'. People absolutely do die from pollution.

This kind of thinking is what allows polluters to externalize their cost to society and the environment.


Let me put it this way, if I came over and dumped hydrazine on your lawn and you died, I'd go to jail.

But when the power company dumps flyash in your drinking water and causes you to have a heart attack, well, you weren't 'directly' killed by the power company so meh.

That's quite a difference from a few million diesel cars emitting too many hydro carbons and someone poisoning your water supply.

This article tries to quantify it but it even admits the damage done depends on a myriad of factors like air currents, density of the smog, density of population, all sorts of stuff. I think it's nearly impossible to quantify. Even their final estimate has a huge range, 2-22 premature deaths in the US annually and 34-313 globally. That's a 10 fold difference. Does anyone else see a problem with that? Plus they aren't outright deaths, they are premature. People with prior health conditions are much more likely to be affected. Which I am not trying to diminish the value of their lives, but there's quite a difference between exacerbating someones existing health problems and straight up killing young, healthy individuals by crashing their vehicles as GM did. There's a big difference between saying well these guys probably negatively affected your health, which might have cause a few people to die prematurely. Whereas in GM ignition case they had a smoking gun. VW should pay some fines yes, but this is overblown and GM got off way too light.

http://www.vox.com/2015/9/23/9383641/volkswagen-scandal-pollution
 
VW supposedly only sold 400,000 of these diesels in the US, so the total number sold by VW and Audi are likely far less than 2 million.
 
some cars being sold in America had devices in diesel engines that could detect when they were being tested, changing the performance accordingly to improve results

Sounds like an awesome feature since emissions tests in the US are more or less just a scam to bilk money out of people. The most emissions tests work in the US if you fail, then you have to spend a certain amount of money on "repairs" at a government approved mechanic. Once you've spent that money, you are given the "all clear" even if your car still fails the test.

So VW putting a device in the car that allows it to cheat the system seems like a good feature to help drivers avoid being ripped off by the state in name of environmental protection. I'm just glad my county did away with e-checks years ago when the state decided to leave it up to each individual county as to whether or not they wanted to do e-checks.
 
Woohoo. Let's hear it for Republicans who are looking out for all out interests like this by continuing to eliminate or greatly restrict basic environmental protections.
 
Woohoo. Let's hear it for Republicans who are looking out for all out interests like this by continuing to eliminate or greatly restrict basic environmental protections.

I'm not a Republican, I just hate spending money on things I don't want. You want me to support environmental protections, have them make me money instead of costing me money.

Take recycling for example: I'd love to recycle. The concept makes complete sense to me. However, all recycling in my area is handled by the local trash collection company and they charge significantly more to have your garbage recycled as opposed to just having it taken to landfill and piled on top of the massive garbage mountain. Now tell me, from a financial perspective, how does it make sense to pay for a more expensive option for what is essentially the same service (at least on my end)? Whether I'm recycling or just having my garbage sent to the landfill, it is still picked up by a truck that comes around once a week. The difference with recycling though is I have to purchase special containers (which I can only buy from the trash company, because if you aren't using their containers, they won't take your recyclables), and I have to pay $40 a month for the service instead of the $12 a month for normal trash collection.

EDIT: Plus, how exactly do e-checks protect the environment, when they still allow cars on the road that fail the test as long as the driver spends the required amount of money? How do I know states do this? Personal experience. When I lived in Washington, my car failed the required e-check there. Luckily I had a mechanic friend out there who was an approved e-check mechanic. He wrote up a fake bill that said all the work he did and how much I spent (even though I didn't really spend a dime). I took my car back to get it tested again, and it failed again. I showed them the bill from the mechanic, and they allowed me to register my car as if I had passed the test.

Yeah, whole lotta environmental protection going on there. :rolleyes:
 
I'm not a Republican, I just hate spending money on things I don't want. You want me to support environmental protections, have them make me money instead of costing me money.
Yet that is indeed who is stripping away these vital protections so even more people aren't the victims of rampant corporate greed, and which are obviously an inherent and vital part of any modern government on the planet.

If you don't want these protections, I suggest you move to a backward country that doesn't have them. You literally have well over 100 choices.
 
Yet that is indeed who is stripping away these vital protections so even more people aren't the victims of rampant corporate greed, and which are obviously an inherent and vital part of any modern government on the planet.

If you don't want these protections, I suggest you move to a backward country that doesn't have them. You literally have well over 100 choices.

Why won't you address the fact that e-checks, as they currently exist in the US, don't protect the environment?

No, instead you will do your usual pick the one part of the post you can respond to and ignore the parts you can't refute in an attempt to act like they don't exist.
 
I agree with commodore, it does often feel like a giant cash grab. But emissions testing in general, have strict standards does force auto companies to innovate at least somewhat, along with market forces.

I like to look at led lighting as an example. I have no idea if regulators or simply the free markets eventually made led tech affordable but you can get an 8 watt led bulb for under $10 at home depot (which is actually a huge ripoff, direct sales sites online they sometimes go under $2) that produces same light as a 60 watt incandescent. You recoup your money in under 200 days, over like a 10 year lifespan you can save a few hundred PER BULB. And that's not even counting that in 10 years you probably ran through ~15 incandescent bulbs and spent the same on those as you did the one led. I mean people can literally save thousands now if they switch their whole houses over.

Thing is when leds and those squiggly cfls first came out I hated them. They looked weird, the cfls took forever to heat up and get bright, they were toxic if you broke them, they never lasted as long as advertised, and leds cost like $50 a bulb, cfls around $10. It sucked. I was bemoaning the death of incandescent and thought I never like house my lights looked again. But few years later the tech is great and cheap and I'm switching my whole house over. I didn't get two hoots about saving electricity and the environment when it was a poor user experience. As soon as it became a good one and saves me a lot of money I'm all in.

Cars are the same way, people aren't going to switch to electric until they're cheaper and work better, but there will be demand if they can make a good enough product and everyone will be happy, environmentalists, the companies selling the cars and the consumers. That's the way it should work anyway.
 
Take recycling for example: I'd love to recycle. The concept makes complete sense to me. However, all recycling in my area is handled by the local trash collection company and they charge significantly more to have your garbage recycled as opposed to just having it taken to landfill and piled on top of the massive garbage mountain.

You.. have to pay for recycling? I pay for it too, just with my taxes. Recycling is not something you should have to pay extra for, what the hell..
 
If I'm required to pay for a public service/monopoly I can view those as taxes, but I'm still going to be somewhat interested in what my village has decided I need to pay for.
 
I agree with commodore, it does often feel like a giant cash grab. But emissions testing in general, have strict standards does force auto companies to innovate at least somewhat, along with market forces.

I like to look at led lighting as an example. I have no idea if regulators or simply the free markets eventually made led tech affordable but you can get an 8 watt led bulb for under $10 at home depot (which is actually a huge ripoff, direct sales sites online they sometimes go under $2) that produces same light as a 60 watt incandescent. You recoup your money in under 200 days, over like a 10 year lifespan you can save a few hundred PER BULB. And that's not even counting that in 10 years you probably ran through ~15 incandescent bulbs and spent the same on those as you did the one led. I mean people can literally save thousands now if they switch their whole houses over.

Thing is when leds and those squiggly cfls first came out I hated them. They looked weird, the cfls took forever to heat up and get bright, they were toxic if you broke them, they never lasted as long as advertised, and leds cost like $50 a bulb, cfls around $10. It sucked. I was bemoaning the death of incandescent and thought I never like house my lights looked again. But few years later the tech is great and cheap and I'm switching my whole house over. I didn't get two hoots about saving electricity and the environment when it was a poor user experience. As soon as it became a good one and saves me a lot of money I'm all in.

Cars are the same way, people aren't going to switch to electric until they're cheaper and work better, but there will be demand if they can make a good enough product and everyone will be happy, environmentalists, the companies selling the cars and the consumers. That's the way it should work anyway.

I think this point of view has quite a degree of merit, because a lot of people around the world according to their pocket book first and foremost prior to any moral principle. In fact I like to argue what we are going through is the inconvenient paradox - we all know global warming is an issue and that it will cost future generations a lot of money (and more) in dealing with the problems it entails - but the fact is people don't want to lower their lifestyles currently

In order for environmentally friendly technologies to succeed, they need to outcompete existing technology. This inspires innovators to constantly innovate on things like making LEDs more efficient for example in order to overtake existing techs. Things like regulations are meant to inspire similar innovation, the problem of course is when you build a culture of language against regulation and in having lax regulatory oversight it effectively lowers the incentive to innovate and fix the problem. The inconvenient paradox of needing to make the world better tomorrow, without significantly lowering standards today is partly why regulation [especially regulation with anti capital flight provisos] is so important to the inconvenient truth of tomorrow - and why corporate attitudes against regulation, while not unexpected are unconducive and ultimately hurt them competitively against companies that do try and adhere to regulations - especially when said fraud like in the case of VW is revealed
 
Why would anyone recycle if you have to pay for it extra? I mean, I'd want to, but I wouldn't. If my city can't figure out how to provide this service for me with the budget it gets from my tax dollars, then they obviously don't give a crap about anybody recycling. As such I'd expect most of my neighbours to not recycle, and my garbage output is so insignificant as a whole that I wouldn't bother to put in the extra time and money to recycle. Everything would go in the trash.

Who's brilliant idea was that? And is that just a county or city specific thing?
 
Why would anyone recycle if you have to pay for it extra? I mean, I'd want to, but I wouldn't. If my city can't figure out how to provide this service for me with the budget it gets from my tax dollars, then they obviously don't give a crap about anybody recycling. As such I'd expect most of my neighbours to not recycle, and my garbage output is so insignificant as a whole that I wouldn't bother to put in the extra time and money to recycle. Everything would go in the trash.

Who's brilliant idea was that? And is that just a county or city specific thing?

It's a county thing. The local trash collection company has a monopoly and the political pull that comes with it. They even maintain a sizable chunk of land for their landfill.

And the effect of their shameless attempt to use recycling as a cash grab is exactly what you describe: almost no one here does it.
 
Why won't you address the fact that e-checks, as they currently exist in the US, don't protect the environment?
How much do you think a person should have to spend to be able to continue to use what is likely his sole transportation to and from work if it fails a smog inspection? $10,000? More?

How does that "make" you "money"?

No, instead you will do your usual pick the one part of the post you can respond to and ignore the parts you can't refute in an attempt to act like they don't exist.
:lol:

Why should I even bother to completely dissect your post when you start off with such inane nonsense?
 
Because he isn't wrong and it isn't inane, and you do this in every thread formy?
 
Why would anyone recycle if you have to pay for it extra? I mean, I'd want to, but I wouldn't. If my city can't figure out how to provide this service for me with the budget it gets from my tax dollars, then they obviously don't give a crap about anybody recycling. As such I'd expect most of my neighbours to not recycle, and my garbage output is so insignificant as a whole that I wouldn't bother to put in the extra time and money to recycle. Everything would go in the trash.

Who's brilliant idea was that? And is that just a county or city specific thing?
Recycling is a losing proposition.

Warning: usual Penn & Teller bad words present here.


Link to video.
 
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