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Wainy's Deity LP - Songhai

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Stories & Let's Plays' started by w a i n y, Sep 5, 2011.

  1. w a i n y

    w a i n y Let's Play Deity!

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    I also want to minimize the number of road tiles between cities. So exactly 4 away is ideal, but 5 is okay too, and 6 and above is mediocre.
     
  2. OrangeNinja

    OrangeNinja Chieftain

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    Ah the roads, forgot about them.
    Thanks for the info, next game I'm gonna up the difficulty a bit and maybe I'll play as Songhai. P:
     
  3. barefooter

    barefooter Chieftain

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    Thanks for videos, although sound is off now and then and a bit choppy I've learned a lot, keep 'em coming :)
    I think I will try immortal with this strategy, although I probably loose focus after some 150 rounds and end up in trouble ..
     
  4. Karpyan

    Karpyan Chieftain

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    Enjoying this LP so far. Can you explain more about the concept of zones of control that you refer to several times - I'm not familiar with it (warmongering not a strong point).
     
  5. RedRover57

    RedRover57 Emperor

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    Basically, you can't move past an enemy unit (or city) even if you have the movement points to otherwise do so. So you can use a melee unit to block the enemy from moving to a position where they could attack one of your ranged units, for example.
     
  6. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

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    Unless China and Germany made peace last turn why would you sign RA with Wu when she is down to one city and has no soldiers? I will not assume RA can work postmortem... :crazyeye:
     
  7. FornaxTorak

    FornaxTorak Chieftain

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    On turn 163, any reason you dont bulb military science for cavalry?
     
  8. w a i n y

    w a i n y Let's Play Deity!

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    Well, she's at war with both Germany and Egypt and hasn't been toasted yet, and the AI is notoriously bad at taking cities. Plus, I can bribe one or the other into peace, and I had a huge excess of gold, and the speed with which I can get nukes is going to be the limiting factor on when I can plow into Germany and take the last capital.

    @FornaxTornak Here's what I said on the Youtube page:
    I didn't think it was worth using a GS on a low-value tech when I wouldn't be getting much of a military advantage from doing so. The reason is that cavalry, due to the 33% penalty vs cities, are only negligibly better than manducavs except against other units, and Denmark had a weak enough military that most of my attacks would be against cities. Much better, I thought, to use the GS on a high-value modern tech and speed up my acquisition of nukes, say.
     
  9. peddroelm

    peddroelm King

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    I've noticed you use city attacks to clean up the stragglers that wander into your borders ..

    Why not take the time, 1-2 Mandukalu that cannot get to the narrow front-lines and "collect" them like the free floating experience balloons they are ? Each extra attack/hit per turn is a step closer to the next promotion ... And because of the roads Mandukalu can be back to the front-line in 1-2 turns max after healing ...
     
  10. w a i n y

    w a i n y Let's Play Deity!

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    Well, they have to heal... you're really looking at 4-5 turns of down-time for that unit, and since they're so maneuverable you could be swapping them out for city attacks or using them to attack cities while others heal. It's not a good idea to occupy parts of your army away from the front.
     
  11. Jodien37

    Jodien37 Chieftain

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    That's true. It is a waste to keep some of your offensive units at home just to defend your cities. City bombard usually brings the enemy to half health by the time they reach melee range. This damage already keeps the enemy from attacking my cities. AI also doesn't pillage much. If it does you have workers to repair. I generally keep the cities ungarrisoned unless there is a serious barb threat or an unpredictable civ around. Even then, I defend with 1 ranged unit per 2 cities. If your fighting at least 10-12 hex away, the experience earned at home doesn't compensate for the time loss due to travel.
     
  12. w a i n y

    w a i n y Let's Play Deity!

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    Well, it's a slightly different situation with me, since I have no siege and mandecav can swap out with each other when attacking cities, so there's a premium on having lots around. Also, the stated reason for doing this was purely for XP farming, not to avoid pillage or defend cities. As we saw in one of the vids, even one of the strongest AIs in the game (Egypt) failed to launch a coherent attack, since they put all their siege near one city and all their melee near another.
    But you're right, none of the reasons you mentioned are worth keeping units back, either. Of course, I did break this rule once: when my capital was under severe attack by 2 different AI, I left an entire single mandecav around to defend :lol:.
     
  13. peddroelm

    peddroelm King

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    ATM I'm operating with a slightly different philosophy: each turn in which a military unit doesn't fight (attack//gets attacked) is a wasted opportunity. Each turn a healthy military unit spends waiting (not fortified holding the line for an imminent enemy attack, waiting for any number of reasons is a waste of the hammers/gold invested in that unit. ). Always go looking for trouble and at the very least farm experience for promotions ... Cavalry seems particularly adept for the job with their high mobility score ...
     
  14. Rpger29

    Rpger29 Prince

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    Hope you can help with this one:

    I'm playing Songhai on a Great Plains map (I know it's practically cheating). My nearest neighbor is Sejong, and I am seriously covetous of his ToA. How many Mandecavs do you think I would need to take his 10 pop capital, assuming I had 2 ranged units to keep the Mandecavs safe?

    Sejong has the Great Wall, so that's really what my question is asking - how effective will the Mandecavs be in that territory? It's mostly flat land.
     
  15. Karpyan

    Karpyan Chieftain

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    This all depends on the strength of the city..., not necessarily the pop. A the outset for a rush I think 6-7 Mandus is generally a good number to aim at, not sure you need the ranged units on top of that.
     
  16. Rpger29

    Rpger29 Prince

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    I was thinking of carrying the ranged units because he'll build a lot of archers, and it will be easier to concentrate fire on them to finish them off. AI has a habit of saving promotions and using insta heal.

    Thank you for the rough number. I was thinking along the same lines. The attack strength of the city will likely be <40. He's taking tradition and I think also piety. Sejong tops the happiness charts at almost 35 happy with only 2 unique luxuries (unless he's also buying them from other AI's).
     
  17. Karpyan

    Karpyan Chieftain

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    Probably that makes sense with a slower lead unit (eg Longswords), but these guys' main strength is manoeuvrability, esp. ability to move after an attack. If you trundle along with catapults/trebuchets in tow, or even archers/crossbows, they'll be left behind each turn which will really slow you down. If it were keshiks, you'd need one melee unit, generally a horseman, to deal the final blow. A 25+ city, for me, begins to get harder to capture with these units. You can see that from the youtube vid.
     
  18. w a i n y

    w a i n y Let's Play Deity!

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    Because of mandecavs' ability to move after attack, you can take down any city in 1 turn with enough of them, but having enemy units to fight off at the same time complicates things. It might be worth taking some of his other cities to wear him down, get a good peace deal with more cities, and take his capital on the second round of war.
     
  19. jvidmaar

    jvidmaar Chieftain

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    Great youtube channel, Wainy! I've learned a ton. Of the two people who post a lot of deity LPs, I much prefer your delivery and level of detail to Maddjinn's, not to take anything away from his amazing vids.

    A few questions and one suggestion:

    Do the advanced deity players prefer pangea maps because poor naval AI makes other map types an autowin or because other map types make victory too dependent on starting position (e.g. you might end up with a run-away AI on another continent before you can get there?)

    It seems the developers' favorite means of eliminating player exploits has been to progressively nerf each of the early rush units and to front-load AI bonuses. Would you guys say that warrior, archer, sword, chariot and horse rushes -- basically all non-UU rushes before medieval -- are now virtually impossible, barring an improbable starting position?

    For future LPs, I'd like to suggest something similar to your viewer vote for Songhai. It would be cool for players to vote for the stock civ LEAST suited for a dom. victory. Then maybe you could take the top 2 or 3 from the vote and do an LP for each, trying to employ different tactics each time to score a dom. victory for each of the "worst" combat civs.

    Part of the fun of civ for me is discovering new strategies that exploit the unique flavors of each civ. An archive of "worst civ" conquests would create a set of openings that we more casual imm/deity players could adapt to almost any civ, instead of falling into some cookie-cutter keshik-type beeline rush with only the best two or three combat civs. Given how easily you crush AI's in combat, it would probably be a fun challenge for you too.
     
  20. w a i n y

    w a i n y Let's Play Deity!

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    Neither, really. There are just inherent logistical complications in launching an intercontinental invasion. The AI can run down your units easily with ships, despite poor naval AI, which means it's probably best to invade from another civ's territory with open borders. Run-away AIs are not an issue - if anything, they help end the game since you can always do a speed invasion on them at the end (and on continents you're much more likely to be on the ocean anyways, which makes this strategy much easier).

    On deity, they are very hard to pull off, although the sword rush less so. But these rushes were never good strategies compared to the longsword rush. I'm thinking currently a catapult and longsword assault is the best early rush strategy (though it's not that early) for civs with no UUs.

    This is a great idea! Since the worst combat civs are the ones with no useful military UU, UB or UA, strategies involving them do tend to be generic enough to apply to any civ. Although in reality, you're not likely to find any civ whose traits can't be leveraged in some way for a domination victory.
     

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