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WangKon (EC)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Gumbolt, Jan 25, 2010.

  1. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
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    20,952
    yeah..whatever the current bonus is on the tile when you settle...like an extra hammer for settling on plains jumbos
     
  2. CBPE

    CBPE Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Middle ITALY
    A very intelligence approach: this map forces the player to reason about deeply, congratulations :)

    Spoiler :

    Settled in place, researched:
    Hunting (for AH and if needed Archery seeing that there nothing to farm)
    - AH
    - BW
    - Wheel - Archery (I think it was betterArchery before and then Wheel but it didn't cost me nothing)
    - Agriculture and AT LAST Pottery.
    Now the obviuos seems IW.

    I'd like to place my fourth settler in the highlighted mark but Louis beated me:



    So, I decided to refold to a poor city but that anyway block him:


    It seems that I can warrant me other 7 cities:


    Spamming cottages and unlocking IW seems me that should ensure a solid economy


     

    Attached Files:

  3. CBPE

    CBPE Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Middle ITALY
    @ lymond:

    it seems you've forgotten the save :)

    Anyway

    Spoiler :

    1- If I've well understood you've built SH, didn't you?
    Is it possible that it delayed a bit your expansion so you've got less land available towards Louis?
    We've settled in the same places 2nd and 3rd cities but it seems me that yours are a bit choking regarding mines.
    2- No archery?!? Why?? It seemed me an obviously choice with a Protective leader and no strategical resources. Aren't you suffering barbs?
     
  4. Ambro

    Ambro Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    81
    I like the original map, sort of. Frustrating it forced me into playing differently which is nice.

    Spoiler :
    Never even considered an archer rush. I figures I should be able to spawn bust enough to keep the barbs under control. This did mean a lot of wasted production on warriors however.

    Seemed like some decent land available post iron-working but I also quickly noticed we had a lot of coast we'd be settling on so I decided to go for the big lighthouse. This is where I have run into a minor issue, none of the coastal sites have decent production, I've taken the North coast along from Paris and am going to have to work desert hill mines to build it without any forest chopping :sad:

    If the GLh comes through then I think it's a pretty strong position (probably boat across to populate the opposite side of Lou) but then again a couple of surprise axemen could easily ruin my party (archery is in but the archers aren't). If the GLh doesn't come in then it's probably going to be a little too frustrating but I'll plug on through. Jungle gets me frustrated at the best of times but having to tech up to iron working and still not even getting a resource sucks.

    Will have a go at the new map tomorrow hopefully. I think just switching some of the jungle west to forest and making the wheat site to the SE a better site would make the game much easier (of course then the GLh is a shoe-in).
     
  5. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    ha...thanks, CBPE i fixed it

    regarding your questions

    Spoiler :

    1- If I've well understood you've built SH, didn't you?

    Yes
    Is it possible that it delayed a bit your expansion so you've got less land available towards Louis?
    It's possible, I really wanted it. To me it's a trade off on hammers then or hammers later in other cities. However, I didn't rush it but popped it in as a placeholder during growth turns. Production was pretty good in the cap so it became easy at the end. However, I note we settled the same FP spot, but it looks like you got there before me since Louie settled a little further away. I had to settle with him already there and then culture fight him.

    We've settled in the same places 2nd and 3rd cities but it seems me that yours are a bit choking regarding mines.

    I'm not sure if I quite follow this point, but you may be referring to what I just pointed out about my 2nd and 3rd cities being under cultural pressure. This is true, but my plan is to get IW up asap and take care of that issue the only way I know how - death to Frenchy!

    2- No archery?!? Why?? It seemed me an obviously choice with a Protective leader and no strategical resources. Aren't you suffering barbs?

    I avoid Archery if at all possible. I consider it a waste of beakers unless absolutely necessary and I had no problems with barbs. My fog busting with strategically placed warriors worked out well. Even killed a barb archer with a fortified warrior on a hill. If you fog bust nicely warriors will do fine until u get metal at least at this level. I think Imm or Deity I may have gone for Archery. Now granted, if I don't get iron then it's game over or grab Archery pronto, because I expect Louie to hook up some copper soon - we already know it's there.

    And honestly,if we don't get iron I'll probably be very disinterested in continuing this game

     
  6. Ambro

    Ambro Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    81
    Just looked at the first post pictures. They seem the same as I remember. Is this because the BFC wasn't changed or is it because it is still the old pictures? Playing the map with knowledge of the old map may prove to be a bit confusing.
     
  7. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    @Ambro

    While the two maps are quite the same, resource distribution and a few more things are different. For anyone who's played the hard version, you can try using the layout knowledge if you want but I don't think it will help or be a nuisance.

    Gumbolt was in a hurry last night and didn't have the time to put up the new screenshot. I'll add it in this and the second post.

     
  8. Ambro

    Ambro Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    81
    Hmm, this is a tough decision. Think I'll try and put the other map out of my head when I start this one. Need to learn more about how the map generators work too.
     
  9. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
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    22,449
    Location:
    UK
    Thanks for posting that image Kossin. I really didnt have time last night. I was up to 1.30am sorting this and other things out. Like I need sleep. :lol::lol:

    I agree with a lot of you that tinkering of maps can be disruptive to a game but at times its useful to normalise a game where its obvious a best save approach would lead to a much early VC than normal or by where every save would involve building the great light house or mids.

    I cant honestly tell you what the original map looked like but I am assured the adjusted map should be playable for players trying to learn emperor or Monarch. See how this plays out. A challenge is always a good thing. :)
     
  10. Norvin_Green

    Norvin_Green Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,874
    Location:
    The Garden State
    Hope you don't mind a Cookbook newcomer. My current level is 2 emperor wins with too many losses to admit under my belt. Monarch, however, seems too easy.

    Round 1 (4000 b.c thru 1500 b.c.)

    Spoiler :
    For whatever reason I moved the settler NE to settle on the hill and have fresh water access. After meeting a creative Louis on turn 3 or 4 and spying his borders it might be a good move. Teched Hunting>AH>BW>IW>Wheel>Ag (partially complete). At size 2 and with two warriors fog-busting I decided to settle towards Louis along the river to get the dye, gems and rice (eventually) and another city further east to get the sugar and another gem plus rice. With patience I think the culture battle can be won. A 4th city can go to the north to block the rest of this small continent.
    In retrospect I wish I had skipped Hunting and went Ag>AH>BW>IW so that Pottery would be available soon.
     
  11. CBPE

    CBPE Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
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    191
    Location:
    Middle ITALY
    @ Norvin Green

    Spoiler :
    Not Slavery yet?!?
    Why? :confused:
     
  12. Norvin_Green

    Norvin_Green Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,874
    Location:
    The Garden State
    @ CBPE

    Spoiler :
    I didn't want to waste a turn of anarchy while teching to IW. Plus with all the hills around Seoul I can build things fairly quickly. I'm not much for slavery either. I use it but probably ineffectively.
     
  13. Glansmannen

    Glansmannen Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2009
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Hello. First time poster. Been lurking these forums to make it at Emperor, so far with no luck. Monarch on the other hand I'm comfortable. Feels like I'm being a bit unfocused sometimes. Anyhow, my first cookbook aswell. Looking forward to any suggestions or tips you experienced guys might have.

    Spoiler :
    So, met Louis pretty early. Really don't like to have creative leaders nearby.
    Techwise I went. Hunting > AH > BW (with no luck) > TW > Archery (for barbs and since no copper revealed) > Fishing > Pottery > Started on IW

    The land, a settler will arrive to the SE any second to settle and cut off Louis.

    Cityplanning.

    Techtree

    Demographics


    So, there you go. IW is up next to get rid of jungle and hopefully get som Iron, then Writing. So, please, comments are more than welcome.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    @Glans

    Spoiler :
    You appear to have missed a bit of the fog to the north of the top northwest city spot. Settling on the rice may be more advantageous.
     
  15. Glansmannen

    Glansmannen Chieftain

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    Stockholm, Sweden
    @lymond
    Spoiler :
    Aight, cheers. Hopefully, probably, I would have checked before settling.
     
  16. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    UK
    You have till saturaday 6pm GMT to post a save. let me know if you need more time.
     
  17. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Location:
    UK
    I will close this round Sunday Am when i am back home. We'll do a days voting and close it off.

    You have about 18 hours left. Tick tock!!! heh
     
  18. dualmaster

    dualmaster Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
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    387
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Here's mine:

    Spoiler :

    So tech is a little slow, and expansion is a little slow, but overall I think it is pretty good.

    For something different, I settled on the banana. It got a worker out earlier, although I still had to wait for AH to do anything really useful with it (I did mine some hills while waiting for AH).

    Techs: Ag>AH>BW>IW>Wheel

    I delayed expansion so I wouldn't kill tech rate before getting to IW. Built Stonehenge for free border pops. Spammed warriors to fogbust. Realized it was just us and Louis pretty early so I DOWed him, managed to grab a worker, and pillaged all improvements. Ended up being a serious choke (we're still at war) and we should block him off to only 2 or 3 cities. Iron is almost online and we could easily wipe Louis out with swords.

    Settled first two cities to block land and grab gems to boost our economy (2 gems already online). A couple nice sites to spam cottages once Pottery is in.

    The Good:
    - Louis crippled, will be easy to take him out
    - Stonehenge
    - Some good cities to support expansion/war
    - Louis will take peace if we want it
    - Continent almost completely spawn busted

    The Bad:
    - Missing Pottery and Writing for economy (though they should be in soon)
    - Not much of a military
    - Need a road network ASAP
    - Mediocre expansion (3 cities, 1 settler ready for a fourth)
    - No trading partner

    Interested to see how other people did.






     

    Attached Files:

  19. Elnsoxo

    Elnsoxo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2005
    Messages:
    8
    My submission.
    Spoiler :

    Went BW->Hunting->AH->Ag->Archery->Wheel, done researching pottery in 5-6 turns.

    Built worker -> warrior -> settler -> barracks -> settler, then pumped archers. Chopped 3 forests and whipped along the way.

    I've killed two of Louis' archers and captured two of his workers, only expending a warrior in the process. Currently we're at war, but he will accept peace. I have a stack of one L3 and two L2 archers pillaging the countryside.

    The capitol is well improved and workers are currently building a road network. A pair should arrive in Wonsan just as pottery is researched to begin cottaging the flood plains.

    My tech rate is crashing, I'm not sure if either IW or writing will be researched in a reasonable amount of time. Pillaging is keeping my research afloat for the time being, but with all my worker stealing Louis can only rebuild cottages so quickly :rolleyes:

    Two cities already founded and the next will be settled in 3 turns. I figured blocking Louis was more important than founding subpar jungle cities in the long term. Both jungle cities (Pyongyang and impending 4th) have 3 nonjungle tiles in the immediate vicinity so they aren't total trash.

    Immediate plans? If Louis' culture is pressuring me, then I'll prevent him from making that land useful. I could make peace now and resume the tech rat race, but Louis' GNP is outpacing mine currently so I don't see any reason to leave him in the lead :p. If it seams feasible I might be able to take Orleans, there are already 3 archers in Louis' territory and 4 more en route. If I keep threatening his capitol he'll have to go light on defenses in production-poor Orleans. The capture of Orleans combined with the cottaging of Wonsan should let me overtake Louis in tech.

    Overview of the land
    Finances
    Demographics

     

    Attached Files:

  20. pnp_dredd

    pnp_dredd civ junkie

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    Messages:
    893
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    my submission:

    Spoiler :

    Tech thoughts: 1) The food in the BFC indicates that we want AH asap, 2) We'll want Pottery too for those financial cottages and 3) we start with Mining, so it's Ag-AH-BW-Wheel-Pottery-Writing. Chop and whip settlers and workers. Keep low defense and rely on fogbusting to deal with barbs.

    Looks like I can build a warrior before worker while growing.

    Turn 6 meet a French scout to the NE. Move my warrior E and map out Louis' borders. Lose this warrior to a barb lion on turn 16.

    Turn 58 settle second city on the river to the East, expanding towards the French. Build Monument.

    Turn 64 build third city on the floodplains to the North.

    ~Turn 85 build fourth city to claim the 2x gems in the jungle to the east, completing a block of Louis.

    1500bc
    4 cities (4, 4, 3, 1 pop), Seoul has a granary, Pyongyang has a monument and a granary half built, other two are completing monumnets.
    3 workers
    7 warriors
    3 turns from writing (see tech path above) currently sustaining 13 research/turn but a lot more cottages will be built over the next 10 turns.
    Land is near-fully fogbusted
    Perhaps ~60 turns from Machinery

    City locations:



     

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