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War in Venezuela: The US Invasion
- Thread starter Henri Christophe
- Start date
Moderator Action: People fall into language traps because they are easy and cliched. It is so much easier to use words like Nazi, fascist, rape, genocide, etc. as stand-ins for actually explaining what is going on. I would rather encourage folks to expand their vocabulary and explanations.
r16
not deity
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2008
- Messages
- 12,528
what if masses of people realize Trump is supremely realist and tries to make things while the US still has power like invading Greenland or capturing the largest oil reserves of the world and the like ? Bad words makes one a critic , to be largely ignored because of opposition to some god's orange shadow on the world ... We already understand beneath the bling of the Democrats' US , this agressive , ignorant , power hungry , irresponsible mentality did never lie dormant and it was always hand waved away , as if people were falling for it . Like the Americans discovering their one and true nature , what they have always been in interactions with others who do not agree to fall in line .
edit: Like ı was pretty sure ı had spelled everything right . Four corrections ...
edit: Like ı was pretty sure ı had spelled everything right . Four corrections ...
Last edited:
danjuno
Cole Phelps, Badge 1247
Remember when we invaded Iraq and it became a shining liberal democracy? 
:
:
GoodEnoughForMe
n.m.s.s.
The NYT is reporting that Rubio and Miller are pushing extremely hard for an invasion. Trump is reportedly hesitant but would be more open to it if America could take their oil.
Lexicus
Deity
Broken_Erika
Play with me.
U.S. Senate Republicans veto legislation to limit Trump's ability to attack Venezuela
Vote comes amid large U.S. military buildup in region
Senate Republicans voted to reject legislation Thursday that would have put a check on U.S. President Donald Trump's ability to launch an attack against Venezuela, as Democrats pressed Congress to take a stronger role in Trump's high-stakes campaign against Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro.Lawmakers, including top Republicans, have demanded that the Trump administration provide them with more information on the U.S. military strikes against alleged drug-smuggling vessels in the Caribbean Sea and eastern Pacific Ocean.
But Thursday's vote, which would essentially prevent an attack on Venezuelan soil by first requiring congressional authorization, showed the lengths to which GOP senators are willing to go to allow the Trump administration to continue its buildup of naval forces in the region.
"President Trump has taken decisive action to protect thousands of Americans from lethal narcotics," said Sen. Jim Risch, the Republican chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
The legislation had virtually no chance of being enacted, in part because it would need to be signed by Trump himself, but it still allowed Democrats to press their GOP colleagues on Trump's threats against Venezuela. The legislation failed to advance 49-51.
"We should not be going to war without a vote of Congress. The lives of our troops are at stake," Sen. Tim Kaine, a Virginia Democrat who pushed the legislation, said in a floor speech.
U.S. naval forces are building an unusually large force, including its most advanced aircraft carrier, in the Caribbean Sea, leading many to the conclusion that Trump's intentions go beyond just intercepting cocaine-running boats.
"It's really an open secret that this is much more about potential regime change," said Sen. Adam Schiff, a California Democrat who pushed the resolution. "If that's where the administration is headed, if that's what we're risking — involvement in a war — then Congress needs to be heard on this."
Push for congressional oversight
As the Trump administration has reconfigured U.S. priorities overseas, there has been a growing sense of frustration among lawmakers, including some Republicans, who are concerned about recent moves by the Pentagon.At a hearing in the Senate Armed Services Committee earlier Thursday, Sen. Roger Wicker, the Republican chair, said that many senators have "serious concerns about the Pentagon's policy office" and that Congress was not being consulted on recent actions like putting a pause on Ukraine security assistance, reducing the number of U.S. troops in Romania and the formulation of the National Defence Strategy.
GOP senators have directed their ire at the Department of Defence's policy office.
"It just seems like there's this pigpen-like mess coming out of the policy shop," said Sen. Tom Cotton, an Arkansas Republican who chairs the Senate Intelligence Committee, during another armed services hearing earlier this week.
As pushback mounts on Capitol Hill, the Trump administration has stepped up its briefings on the campaign in the Caribbean, including sending both Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth to a classified briefing Wednesday.
The officials gave details on the intelligence that is used to target the boats and allowed senators to review the legal rationale for the attacks, but did not discuss whether they would launch an attack directly against Venezuela, according to lawmakers in the meeting.
Still, Democrats, joined by Republican Sen. Rand Paul, have pushed into the unease among Republicans by forcing a vote on the potential for an attack on Venezuela under the War Powers Resolution of 1973, which was intended to reassert congressional power over the declaration of war.
A previous war powers vote pertaining to the strikes against boats in international waters failed last month 48-51, but Kaine said he was hoping to peel off more Republicans with a resolution that only pertains to attacks on Venezuela.
Some Republicans uneasy with strikes
Republican leadership worled Thursday to ensure the legislation failed, and many GOP senators have expressed support for Trump's campaign, which has killed at least 66 people in 16 known strikes.Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican who is a Trump ally, argued in a floor speech that the War Powers Act gave lawmakers too much power over military decisions and that Congress has other means to check the president's decisions.
"I like the idea that our commander-in-chief is telling narco-terrorist organizations you're not only a foreign terrorist organization, but when you engage in threats to our country — a boat headed to America full of drugs — we're going to take you out," Graham said.
Just hours before the vote, Republican Sen. Susan Collins of Maine said she'd carefully read the Trump administration's secret legal opinion on the strikes, but had not reached a decision.
Sen. Thom Tillis, a North Carolina Republican, said he would vote against the resolution, but added that he's had his doubts about the campaign.
He pointed out that it was expensive to change the deployment location for an aircraft carrier and questioned whether those funds could be better used at the U.S.-Mexico border to stop fentanyl trafficking.
Tillis said that if the campaign continues for several months more, "then we have to have a real discussion about whether or not we're engaging in some sort of hybrid war."
Still, Democrats argued that the Trump administration was using a flimsy legal defense for an expansive military campaign that is putting U.S. troops and the nation's reputation at risk.
Sen. Jack Reed, the top Democrat on the Senate Armed Services, charged that Trump is engaging in "violence without a strategic objective" while failing to take actions that would actually address fentanyl smuggling. "You cannot bomb your way out of a drug crisis," he said.
Yet Kaine also acknowledged that there was also some risk in forcing the vote because it could give a tacit greenlight to Trump to launch an outright attack.
"Congress has got to just stand up and be counted — or not," he said.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-senate-vote-venezuela-war-powers-9.6970156
Invading Venezuela is a bigly stepping stone to the Nobel Peace Prize. Boy, it must be hard to be President. So many tough calls.
Broken_Erika
Play with me.
These people are just sick.
amadeus
ⓞ ዝ ʏ ɛ ᗩ ի
A FIFA peace prize? I’m guessing after “you will see,” Trump secured himself the prize by saying “an eight-figure check.”
Klaus Hergersheimer
Emperor
I'll just link to this here:
I am sincerely hoping I or someone does not have to create a separate thread on the results of this any time soon, as it looks like US military action against Venezuela is approaching an imminent phase (or so it seems). Not only do I worry about Trump entering a likely conflict he has 1) no real goal towards finishing and 2) no explanation given to either congress or America, but that this will inevitably pull our attention away from more dangerous theaters around the world. The deal to Nicholas Maduro seems to be being made that he either step down, or something bad will happen.
A more cynical side of this conversation seems to suggest that Trump wants to shake some kind of concession out of Maduro (e.g. oil) and then leave him alone. Given Trump's actions in bombing Iran versus not doing the same against Russia, I believe he is a man who tends to favor easy victories over more difficult yet more meaningful ones.
On the other hand, these are only a few unnamed sources saying this:
Trump Said to Authorize C.I.A. Plans for Covert Action in Venezuela
The president has signed off on possible operations inside Venezuela but has also reopened back-channel communications with the government of President Nicolás Maduro.www.nytimes.com
Trump Said to Authorize C.I.A. Plans for Covert Action in Venezuela
The president has signed off on possible operations inside Venezuela but has also reopened back-channel communications with the government of President Nicolás Maduro.
Listen to this article · 5:55 min Learn more
The next phase of the Trump administration’s escalating pressure campaign on the government of President Nicolás Maduro could be sabotage or some sort of cyber, psychological or information operations.Credit...Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
By Tyler Pager, Julian E. Barnes and Eric Schmitt
Reporting from Washington
Published Nov. 18, 2025Updated Nov. 19, 2025, 8:22 a.m. ET
Leer en español
With the largest U.S. aircraft carrier now positioned in the Caribbean, President Trump has approved additional measures to pressure Venezuela and prepare for the possibility of a broader military campaign, according to multiple people briefed on the matter.
Mr. Trump has signed off on C.I.A. plans for covert measures inside Venezuela, operations that could be meant to prepare a battlefield for further action, these people said. At the same time, they said, he has authorized a new round of back-channel negotiations that at one point resulted in President Nicolás Maduro of Venezuela offering to step down after a delay of a couple of years, a proposal the White House rejected.
It is not clear what the covert actions might be or when any of them might be carried out. Mr. Trump has not yet authorized combat forces on the ground in Venezuela, so the next phase of the administration’s escalating pressure campaign on the Maduro government could be sabotage or some sort of cyber, psychological or information operations.
The president has not made a decision about the broader course of action to pursue in Venezuela, nor publicly articulated his ultimate goal beyond stemming the flow of drugs from the region. And military and C.I.A. planners have prepared multiple options for different contingencies.
Military planners have prepared lists of potential drug facilities that could be struck. The Pentagon is also planning for strikes on military units close to Mr. Maduro. Mr. Trump held two meetings in the White House Situation Room last week to discuss Venezuela and review options with his senior advisers.
Image
The U.S.S. Gerald R. Ford during a NATO exercise in September. It moved into the Caribbean over the weekend.Credit...Jonathan Klein/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
Any covert action by the C.I.A. would probably come before such military strikes.
Both the White House and the C.I.A. declined to comment on Mr. Trump’s order.
Even as Mr. Trump has told the C.I.A. to prepare multiple possible secret operations inside Venezuela, he has also opened up back-channel negotiations with Mr. Maduro after cutting off such talks last month for a brief time, people briefed on the matter said.
In those informal talks, Mr. Maduro has signaled a willingness to offer access to his country’s oil wealth to American energy companies.
Mr. Trump acknowledged those talks, in a fashion, on Sunday.
“We may be having some discussions with Maduro, and we’ll see how that turns out,” Mr. Trump said.
While Mr. Trump emphasizes Venezuela’s role in the drug trade or illegal immigration when he discusses the issue in public, he has discussed in private the country’s huge oil reserves and American companies gaining access to them.
Venezuelan officials have told Americans that Mr. Maduro might be willing to step down, after a transition of two to three years, according to the people briefed on the matter. Any delay in Mr. Maduro’s giving up power is a nonstarter with the White House.
But despite the apparent impasse, the back-channel negotiations show that a diplomatic solution is still possible.
People briefed on the discussions say it is not clear what outcome the president favors. Mr. Trump could agree to a diplomatic deal to gain more access to the Venezuela oil resources for American companies, he could push for a resolution that allows Mr. Maduro to voluntarily give up power, or he could demand that the United States forcibly remove the Venezuelan dictator.
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Even with the endgame uncertain, the White House has settled on a strategy of ratcheting up the pressure on Mr. Maduro, while giving Mr. Trump options on how he might want to bring the campaign against Venezuela to a conclusion.
Called “Operation Southern Spear,” the massive buildup of American naval forces in the Caribbean is the largest since the Cuban Missile Crisis and the blockade of Cuba in 1962. The carrier Gerald R. Ford arrived in the Caribbean over the weekend, and there are now 15,000 troops in the region, including Marines on amphibious ships and personnel at military bases in Puerto Rico.
But the military buildup is only the most obvious of a multifaceted pressure campaign.
The State Department has announced that, effective Nov. 24, it will designate Cartel de los Soles a terrorist organization. While Cartel de los Soles is not a cartel in the traditional sense, it is a way for the Trump administration to label a broad swath of Mr. Maduro’s government a terrorism organization, potentially paving the way for military action but also pressuring the government.
Mr. Trump’s public comments in recent days have reflected the uncertainty over the endgame, even as he increases the pressure. Mr. Trump said on Monday that he had not ruled out ground forces going into Venezuela, and held out the possibility of direct negotiations with Mr. Maduro.
“I don’t rule out anything,” Mr. Trump said. “We just have to take care of Venezuela.”
The United States has launched 21 known strikes on boats that the administration says were smuggling drugs, killing at least 83 people. Mr. Trump has said ample intelligence justifies the strikes, but administration officials have not provided detailed evidence of the cargo the boats were carrying.
Those strikes have been conducted without congressional authorization, prompting criticism from legal experts and Democrats in Congress that the administration is intentionally targeting civilians who may be suspected of crimes but are not combatants.
Mr. Trump, at least after the early strikes, said the United States had targeted fentanyl, a deadly synthetic opioid that has caused tens of thousands of overdose deaths. But military officials, in closed door meetings with Congress, have acknowledged that the boats are carrying cocaine, not fentanyl.
Tyler Pager is a White House correspondent for The Times, covering President Trump and his administration.
Julian E. Barnes covers the U.S. intelligence agencies and international security matters for The Times. He has written about security issues for more than two decades.
Eric Schmitt is a national security correspondent for The Times. He has reported on U.S. military affairs and counterterrorism for more than three decades.
Lexicus
Deity
Beautiful things happen when the world's most corrupt man meets its most corrupt sports federation
GoodEnoughForMe
n.m.s.s.
The US regime has announced a new phase in its basically-a-war on Venezuela, with multiple sources saying covert operations in the country are increasingly likely. Trump has not officially decided whether to make military strikes on Venezuela yet, but Rubio and Hegseth are still pushing hard for it behind closed doors. It’s hard to see this de-escalating now.
In recent polling, over 70% of Americans are against a war with Venezuela, but about 55% are supportive of extrajudicial killing of Venezuelan civilians in international waters, so, it’s impossible to say whether the American voter deserves to live and breathe still.
In recent polling, over 70% of Americans are against a war with Venezuela, but about 55% are supportive of extrajudicial killing of Venezuelan civilians in international waters, so, it’s impossible to say whether the American voter deserves to live and breathe still.
Ordnael
I'll be the roundabout
I think every voter deserves to breathe, specially the ones that vote "wrong".
danjuno
Cole Phelps, Badge 1247
Even if they're on a boat in the Caribbean?
GoodEnoughForMe
n.m.s.s.
It was a hyperbolic final sentence and a pseudo-reference to an old dril tweet about drunk driving. All of my friends and family are literally American voters lol
‘Kill Everybody’: Hegseth Reportedly Ordered SEAL Team 6 to Leave No Survivors After Caribbean Boat Strike
I wonder why they were so upset about the idea that soldiers are responsable if they follow illegal orders?
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth reportedly ordered SEAL Team 6 to kill every individual aboard a suspected drug-trafficking boat.
In a Friday report from The Washington Post, sources described the scene and aftermath of the Trump administration’s first Caribbean airstrike in September.
Those with knowledge of the inner workings of the operation claimed Hegseth explicitly told the SEAL Team to leave no survivors. The Washington Post report continued:
Not long after the two survivors came into view, the Special Operations commander overseeing the attack reportedly ordered a second strike. The two men, sources said, were “blown apart in the water.”
As noted in the report, Trump posted a short video of the strike shortly after. The video notably excluded the follow-up strike. That, according to one source, could have dramatically changed public opinion. The report continued:
I wonder why they were so upset about the idea that soldiers are responsable if they follow illegal orders?
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth reportedly ordered SEAL Team 6 to kill every individual aboard a suspected drug-trafficking boat.
In a Friday report from The Washington Post, sources described the scene and aftermath of the Trump administration’s first Caribbean airstrike in September.
Those with knowledge of the inner workings of the operation claimed Hegseth explicitly told the SEAL Team to leave no survivors. The Washington Post report continued:
Not long after the two survivors came into view, the Special Operations commander overseeing the attack reportedly ordered a second strike. The two men, sources said, were “blown apart in the water.”
As noted in the report, Trump posted a short video of the strike shortly after. The video notably excluded the follow-up strike. That, according to one source, could have dramatically changed public opinion. The report continued:
r16
not deity
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2008
- Messages
- 12,528
nothing would happen . Murder is murder the first time it is and not just to kill survivors, staged release helps "the education of people" that it is not an Hollywood production and things "have changed" and to an outsider the segment of the society that provides warm bodies for the US Military should be the one that provides for the US cops who are not afraid of murder while covered by live TV . The writer of the news article acts like he/she has never heard of the last two decades in places like Iraq .
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