War with RB

[Sommerswerd]

Well Done.

Can we get any of their retreating stack or do we have to just let them escape/regroup?

(I never lost faith in you guys to pull out a smashing victory )

 

[2metraninja]

EDIT: to be more specific- finish off the remainder of their stack and kill the two cats 1N with chars/knights while staying out of range of their maces/cats mini-stack on top of the gold. I'm not worried about any subsequent hits we take if they sally the Forbidden Fruit garrison, just makes them easier to kill. That lone knight is slightly annoying but I would be fine trading a char/knight to get those two cats.

Can we get any of their retreating stack or do we have to just let them escape/regroup?

Yes, we will finish off all of their units. No one will run away.

(I never lost faith in you guys to pull out a smashing victory )

Thanks. It was hanging on a thin hairline and we did got lucky in this. Not like we were not prepared to grab the chance, but still, it could have been simply impossible if we had no luck. We sacrificed 2 captured workers btw

 

[vranasm]

We sacrificed 2 captured workers btw

seems appropriate to me...

 

[Sommerswerd]

We sacrificed 2 captured workers btw

Yes this was promised to the RNG Gods in exchange for victory and it must be given as promised. I know some don't believe in the RNG Gods or their wrath, but we the faithful believers know they are always there... watching

 

[2metraninja]

Played turn. Mopped - up all RB units in range. We need to heal for 2-3 turns though before we can continue.

Following our great victory a new Great General emerged to serve us.

 

[Aivoturso]

We got Milla Jovovich? Awesome

 

[Sommerswerd]

We got Milla Jovovich? Awesome

Wait did we get Joan of Arc Milla or the 5th-Element-Super-God-Powers Milla?

Cause if its the later I'd say just use the superbomb 5 color ray deathlazer and be done with it.

yes that's what I'm talkin' about

If its just Joan of Arc... Well, she's pretty hot too I guess...

 

[2metraninja]

180 Ports Your Goal (Realms_Beyond) has been captured by the Apolyton Empire!!!
180 The Middle East (Realms_Beyond) has been captured by the Apolyton Empire!!!

Poly are doing OK in taking what is theirs.

Dont know if it is related, but MZ asked me to send them the map for drawing borders tonight. Good or bad, I think we must do it.

One idea I have is we can make small concessions but ask for retributions in WPC or Uciv future land.

 

[bistrita]

I decided to go against advancing in rb lands will advance next turn with a serious force.

 

[2metraninja]

This is the intelligence info from our allies:

RB are getting thin for sure, but it seems CP are getting thin too.

 

[Sommerswerd]

If CP and Poly both are out of the forces to advance, can we finish them off alone without Rifles? If yes this is good because we will take so many more cities, but if not then what is the next move?

 

[2metraninja]

If CP and Poly both are out of the forces to advance, can we finish them off alone without Rifles? If yes this is good because we will take so many more cities, but if not then what is the next move?

At this stage, we will be able to crush RB with or without help from allies, our army is way too strong for RB to stop. So in fact, yes - you are right that if CP and Poly stall, this will benefit us by giving us more time to conquer more cities. However, we did semi-officially agreed to fair land split. But yes, "fair" can differ from player to player, what to speak from team to team and "possession is 9/10 of the law".

In related news,
from Civstats:

9/24/13 7:21 pm WPC Score increased to 595
9/24/13 7:21 pm Realms_Beyond Score decreased to 1098
9/24/13 7:19 pm WPC Logged in

from APT:

180 WPC has declared war on Realms_Beyond!
180 The X Factor (Realms_Beyond) has been captured by the WePlayCiv!!!

and shortly after from Gtalk chat with MZ:

MZprox: grr.. wpc has just stole a city from us..
аз: yes, I just saw this too
MZprox: i could had taken it if i see this coming
if i take them in different order
аз: poor WPC were cheated by RB in their last war and they must felt this is at least some moral reward
do you have a NAP with them?
MZprox: they have like 20 turns to enjoy it
аз: aha
same length NAP with us they have
MZprox: rb told me they have along nap with wpc, so it was done with rb's permission
аз: or maybe not
WPC were complaining to us how RB cheated on them
RB was supposed to give WPC 6 of the German cities
and they gave them none

 

[2metraninja]

Some more thoughts about RB and the end of it all:

MZprox: about our front: I don't see big egyptian forces, I know there are catapults somewhere, but all in all we clearly have upper hand
аз: I saw screenshot from Ot4e - the land looks like clear from RB forces
MZprox: aztec and maya sent 10 + cruissairies from the south, they can take cities there w/o resistance
Изпратено в 08:41, сряда
MZprox: i guess it's really time to start the long and probably heated negotiations about who get what
аз: yes, good move from ot4e to fight exclusively in the middle for long, so RB empty their easily accessed south and start taking cities when main RB forces are defeated
about this, I tried to log in to the game last night to do that map, but our turnplayer was already ended turn and it seems once you hit EOT, you cannot log in anymore
you think it will be heated discussion?
I think it is quite clear which land in which sphere of influence goes
Изпратено в 08:45, сряда
MZprox: in my understanding we agreed to divide the spoils fairly, everyone getting about the same worth of stuff
Изпратено в 08:46, сряда
аз: same here
Изпратено в 08:48, сряда
MZprox: we need to count how many cities rb had to get a proximate number about how many cities go to each of us, but really it should be weighted, as the cities we got are very undeveloped. we get 0 or 1 building, only afew twon and village and overall the inca land is quite poor. Also no wonder and such. arguably the holy shrine in it self worth more than a city
Изпратено в 08:51, сряда
аз: yes, right, we do know not all cities are equal
and still, land is land, and land is power
MZprox: we got an academy in a city which has a single village and the rest are cottages
btw the holy shrine will be yours or aztec's?
аз: hahah... well...it happens. of course cities are different and their surroundings are different too. like for example, capitol sites are worth like 2 normal cities
we see it as way closer to us
5-6 tiles from our borders
Изпратено в 08:56, сряда
MZprox: don't forget about rb's ice cities
аз: what you mean?
the islands?
MZprox: i mean to take or destroy them.. to truly finish rb off asap
аз: ah, yes
we will of course
this war as a whole went better than expected I must say honestly
Изпратено в 08:58, сряда
MZprox: yes... quite unexpected that rb screws the strategy part so big
аз: agree

 

[2metraninja]

MZprox: aztec and maya sent 10 + cruissairies from the south, they can take cities there w/o resistance

With this info in mind, I think we must make sure we act in the correct way. Not the optimal one which will give us least victims or best odds with bombarding, etc, etc. The one which will give us most cities the quickest. I dont like those French riding in lands which are not their business at all.

Even more worrying is that we still have no idea what is going on and why Ot4e called them.

аз: I still wonder what is the French connection in this war,
what are they doing ?
MZprox: ot4e told me they get half the money the plunder from cities..i can't really belive this story, but otherwise no idea
аз: hahah
cool story, bro

 

[2metraninja]

аз: someone expressed fear that they are coming to raze cities which should be ours
Изпратено в 11:16, сряда
Ot4e: they are only there to help us capture ours
Изпратено в 11:17, сряда
аз: I will trust your word and hope I wont come to regret that
we thought about this too, but then we decided French could had easily gifted you the units you need

This is what I asked Ot4e for the French and he said nothing why they just not gifted them those units if it is only for helping them.

Quite suspicious. They have something on their mind

 

[2metraninja]

We had quite weird 3-way chat with MZ and Ot4e. At least he said French wont keep cities or try to sabotage us:

Ot4e: i dont sit relaxed on the sofa with one leg on another
but there is no fire
we will still need to think our turns
MZprox: sure i agree
аз: yes, of course
we will need to think our moves well too
MZprox: i also think that it is useless now to sacrifice units just to finish the war a bit sooner
Ot4e: why?
how so and what changed?
the more we wait, the more they can build, kill their pop and may be even land
WPC can arrive on other cities
MZprox: they can not get too much reinforcements now. so waiting a turn or two and not advancing only with damaged unit is favorable
Ot4e: I've seen RB roading their direction
killing their units is the priority imho. they will allways be able to do harm
and they havent delete them yet
аз: in which direction RB built roads?
Ot4e: in wpcs
MZprox: ok, but wpc can't use their roads.. and i don't think they would get more
they used a single chariot to take that city
аз: it is good that you mention lost land, as we start to fear we will be deprived from some land by the french
Ot4e: we could consider razing it
Изпратено в 13:34, сряда
MZprox: I don't want to break the nap with wpc even though they broke it with rb
Ot4e: we dont have NAP
MZprox: hmmm..
interesting i will think about it
Изпратено в 13:36, сряда
Ot4e: I am also not sure that it is the best idea. If they bring all there, or to spoil relations with the, But may be it is an option
Изпратено в 13:38, сряда
MZprox: anyhow, few things to discuss: first i guess we all agree that besides this unfortunate wpc gain we divide everythzing just between us and that we should make this agreement to avoid any confusion about who gets what. My proposal ofc that we take into consideration about each city that how big is it, how many buildings/wonders it has and how developed the land around it. a food less tundra city is not a big gain
Изпратено в 13:40, сряда
аз: I also want to hear that it will be us 3 who put the most efforts in this war to divide the land
Ot4e: and this must meet those efforts and burden we carry
MZprox: yes
аз: I know how I usually divide land between allies
MZprox: so i don1t expect this to be a simple fast agreement, better start soon
Ot4e: and how?
аз: we count the good land tiles. no peaks, no tundras, no desert
from here on, we can add oher things in the equation
like resources
and to count a village or town as resource
Изпратено в 13:45, сряда
аз: I would say 1 resource is worth 2 normal tiles of land
Ot4e: heh
MZprox: probalby we don't need to be that accurate, but if you are willing to do it..
Ot4e: I dont think that we can ever come to agreement if we calculate all
аз: for me, simple trammel and a triangle can do the job
Изпратено в 13:47, сряда
аз: I am repeating my question again - how we get ensurances French wont take from our spoil
Ot4e: I dont see this as the problem yet
to rise such question
MZprox: i just say we probably deserve more cities as those we got are small, underdeveloped and some of them had to be rebuilt by us . I can also acknowledge that aztec had lost more units in the war than us (though we really put ourselves into helping them)
Ot4e: MZ you got most land and one of the best
the size is compensated by the time you got it
MZprox: you see, here is a disagreement already
аз: I prefer to think about problems and solve them before they are thrown at my face
Ot4e: and we get cities of size 2-3
with 1-2 building
almost useless wonders
and we had to kill over 100 units
аз: I agree that to make difference, a city must be over 7-8
Ot4e: and we also pay frenchies because without them it couldnt work so good
аз: what you pay them?
Ot4e: gold, units
Изпратено в 13:52, сряда
MZprox: anyway our land seriously lacks villages/towns and the city placement is quite bad overall.. no food in many cities first circle, but that will be corrected in time. I also prefer easier agreements till a point. What i wanted t oask from both of you: does any of you need rb's ice cities? any preparation to take them? I cn send out my galley to destroy them in 10 turns
Изпратено в 13:56, сряда
аз: I agree simple agreements will work best
and to keep the agreements simple, I want to hear from Ot4e what French expect to take
Изпратено в 13:59, сряда
Ot4e: Havent I said?
they dont take cities
аз: this is new information
and I am glad to hear it
Ot4e: I said that
may be we can give them French Riviera
but I doubt they agree
they cant handle maintance
аз: can you also say they wont raze RB cities?
Ot4e: I hope so
аз: I will be really disappointed if this happens
Ot4e: I can say that I dont see reasons for it to happen
we asked them to do certain job
not to sabotage
MZprox: maybe we shouldn1t had destroyed speed racer, but at that point rb still had a considerable army.. which they just wasted stupidly..
Ot4e: yes you should keep it
and provoke them to attack
MZprox: but we could only attack it with a single chariot
Ot4e: and then move in plenty of units, no?
MZprox: and we wanted to send our forces to help you at tree not dividing it in two
Ot4e: ok thank you for this
they came in time
MZprox: so ice cities anyone? it's just an offer that we take care of them just to get the gold from razing. if you don't want to destroy them i will leave it to you to capture
аз: are those the island cities?
you speak about?
Ot4e: I think we'd like to get one
MZprox: there are two island city somewhere, we don't know the exact location
аз: we know one
Ot4e: but may be we can bring settler
аз: it is right on our shores
Ot4e: and you can raze
MZprox: ok, then i don't send out my galley
Ot4e: I doubt that it is well developed

аз: we have galley ant trireme near our island city
we even had sea battles, what you know, you land rats
MZprox: we have a fleet of 3 galleys
Ot4e: MZ made amphibious raids too
we are peaceful sea traders indeed
lake traders
Изпратено в 14:09, сряда
Ot4e: i need afk guys
Изпратено в 14:11, сряда
Ot4e: I will leave a window opened
and hopefully read later
Изпратено в 14:13, сряда
аз: so, at the end, how we divide the spoils?
by city count?
Изпратено в 14:15, сряда
Ot4e: by fair agreement. I will be disappointed if it will be unfair.
afk
аз: so far, we built number 1 military, killed about 50 RB units and still have only 1 RB city, we care for fair agreement too
Изпратено в 14:17, сряда
MZprox: you have two cities i think
Изпратено в 14:21, сряда
MZprox: we got 11 cities (one of them was rebuilt) and we will rebuild speed racer.
аз: we had to raze Starfall
Изпратено в 14:23, сряда
MZprox: but those cities have 0 or one buildings, very few towns and villages
i would definately offer the 4 worst city for the one with the holy shrine
Изпратено в 14:26, сряда
MZprox: i'm not sure how many cities rb had before the war
Изпратено в 14:27, сряда
аз: I would exchange the shrine city for the ex-German capitol too
hopefully tonight I will make at last the map so we can 3 draw
Изпратено в 14:30, сряда
MZprox: eh damit.. we should make it happen somehow
i mean the exchange
Изпратено в 14:31, сряда
аз: hahah
I am sure once we see the map and the cities and we start to draw, it will become pretty obvious how the land must be divided

Still wonder what was this task Ot4e invited French to come for. He is hiding something and I sense we wont be happy with it when we see it.

 

[2metraninja]

I will repeat again what I said earlier today: we need REALLY GOOD plan to get what is ours from RB.

RB looked broken last turn and now there is official statement from their turnplayer Mostly Harmless that they simply give up and cant do much more than hitting EoT. Well, they still can be very dangerous, but their backbone is broken.

 

[2metraninja]

So, the bargaining begun:

Ot4e: I've sent you one
I've sent you both one map
it was prepared by one guy from ApolMZprox
аз: ah, good, we will draw map too
Ot4e: my considerations about this all
Изпратено в 15:29, сряда
аз: I would had prefered we all to send our proposals together at the same time. now we will always have what you drew in mind
Изпратено в 15:33, сряда
MZprox: i don't see suggestions just a blank map
аз: that is better then that it is just blank
Ot4e: Map can be divided equally, and it is not by number of cities or tiles but in almost obvious ways.

But there is one factor that must be taken in account. How unbalanced was the RB defense and how much loses we had to carry to bring you all this effectively. So the spoils distribution must be corresponding to efforts. So it must be adjusted. It doesnt suddenly mean that you get nothing and we get all. We all did great job.
But we have some more expectations from this.
аз: lets discuss this tonight and even 1 more day if it is necessary and everyone come with the map and drawings together
Ot4e: it wasnt suggestion
but you can draw on it easily
and still see some details
Metra is making map for 2 weeks at least
I say it is simple
аз: hahah, yes, it is my fault indeed. for 2 weeks no, but for 2-3 turns for sure
Изпратено в 15:36, сряда
Ot4e: paint is your friend
Изпратено в 15:38, сряда
аз: thanks for sending that map, I think it will do good job
Ot4e: say thnx to Ozzy

аз: I am saying thanks to you, because I could had made better map easily, but it is still not ready and we to be able to draw on it
something I see this map lacks is resources
Ot4e: yes
аз: also it lacks current posession cities
Ot4e: this is to Ozzy also
аз: I will be at home in 2-3 hours maybe and I can make new map
with resource bubbles, no white areas and currnt posession
MZprox: how is ozzy involved in this? He rarely writes in his team forum
аз: oho, double-agent affair?
Изпратено в 15:46, сряда
MZprox: i find it strange
Изпратено в 15:48, сряда
Ot4e: when you were away I asked him for a screenshot
and he sent this
10 screenshots combined in one
I find it useful
Изпратено в 15:56, сряда
MZprox: ah, I see. he could had posted this for us too
Изпратено в 15:58, сряда
MZprox: i drew my version btw.. i guess I'm gona wait posting it, just one note: we might had got many small cities, but some of them as worthless as those aztec could build the free land between them and rb (like build two cities for each tundra deer)
аз: cities themselves dont make much
cities are built and they grow
I agree that city size one is not great property
where good land is
ot4e said it well - it is very easy to divide the land actually
Ot4e: aha and tundra deers are not big treasure too
MZprox: we have several cities with only tundra deer.. or with less
аз: especially for MZ with his 4c shores, they might be
this is just a joke
MZprox: I'm afraid those days will be over not in the far future..
аз: I still think that counting good land tiles is OK
about whoever was more responcible for the win and whoever deserves more of the spoils, the war is not over yet
we might well catch ot4e in RB hammers killed
Ot4e: OK
lets see
this is not only about hammers
аз: from my point of view, we all 3 made great job in defeating RB
Ot4e: we brought frenchies, we used commerce for espionage
lets count all
аз: if there was even only 1 out of the equation, the other 2 could not had any success, do we all agree with this?
we did not use money for espionage, but we did not steal anything either
Ot4e: I mentioned that we all have done good job
аз: and the French role we still have to see
Ot4e: nobody denies that
and that we deserve a piece
аз: it might turns out that french role is damagin, and not helping
Ot4e: but what I am saying is that there are 2 things we must gain each: 1 part just for taking part in this and another must be distributed corresponding to efforts
аз: this sounds OK to me
how we measure efforts?
Ot4e: of course I should be a bargain whore and come to you guys before making each move and say
that for this we ask that
but it is ridiculous too
so as we measure everything else
аз: of course this last is not the way to be done
we are all gentleman
Ot4e: and frenchies did good job for us all
by 2 things at least
1) giving you peace in time
2) bringing their armies to help us
help us all
аз: oh, it begun, now the french are in the equation too
Ot4e: not only my team
no
I am not saying this
I am saying that bringing them into war is also success
аз: now, this is still only a joke, but I can say that we giving peace to frenchies was actually very helping them, as we could had sent our 100 units their way instead of RB
Ot4e: and your suspicious has no reasons so far
аз: but excuse me, I did not knew that french armies fought on our side
tell me about that, I hear this for first time
Ot4e: what do you want to hear?
MZprox: i'm not sure they had participated in any battle yet
аз: about what armies French bring and what fights they did so far
Ot4e: they did
and I am sure this is one of the main reason they give up
earlier
аз: ok, speak with numbers
Ot4e: without causing us as much loses as they could without them
Изпратено в 16:13, сряда
Ot4e: I dont think that you need to measure their efforts separately from ours as they dont pretend on the spoils.
and not sure what you need to know
аз: then why you bring them in the negotiations?
Ot4e: did I?
lol
аз: I honestly did not knew they sent even 1 unit
Ot4e: where are they?
аз: and it was surprise for me to hear: "Give us credit for the french involvement in this war"
Изпратено в 16:15, сряда
MZprox: I say cfc deserves less cities because they joined the war much later
Ot4e: I said that it is a part of our effort. When I say we killed over 100 I mean just we, but I should speak about how many we killed combined. But there is no big difference. And I hope you are not making difference. Thats all
аз: this is true too, we joined way later
MZprox: and that we don't deserve less just because we were unlucky and rb evaded us in the beginning
аз: then I can say WPC attack on RB was my effort. it is true. I was talking WPC how badly RB mistreated them
MZprox: seriously though, it's ok for us to take into consideration.. i think it will be with the number of twons and buildings aztec will get with their cities
damn wpc... you know they stole a city from the 3 of us, and not from me, right?
аз: yes, from 3 of us, I know that
Ot4e: no
аз: I honestly did not thought they will actually attack RB
I was hoping for as much as they cancel the happy res deal
Ot4e: having long NAP and no border agreements with wild people from stone age is YOUR problem
аз: guys, lets keep the dialogue civilized
hahah, I like this
not that it holds much truth, but it is cool
ok, lets back to constructive talks
Ot4e: but you say that if frenchies take city it is my problem
but when we talk about WPC
it is OUR problem
no guys
we have agreed with frenchies what we take and if they take ours it will be truly our problem
not yours
MZprox: wpc is like a non-player character.. an AI (quite a lousy one) which can not be taken into consideration
аз: I always said French taking something will be from our 3 nations spoil
Ot4e: if they take yours it will be your problem but I will do my best to prevent it
because I am for constructed civilized dialog
аз: plus no one talked and alowed WPC armies trough their lands making agreements with them
MZprox: it would had been ours if we had a na greement about it. but all we had is that we divide the spoils equally
аз: yes, it is true
even before this war started I gave my word no one will be left unfairly deprived from land
Изпратено в 16:25, сряда
аз: ok, ot4e, I understand you want moer than the numerical fair split of the lands. tell how more you talk about
Изпратено в 16:26, сряда
аз: and what your claims are based on, so if something change in the meanwhile, we have your vision on what is fair and correct this. for example if till the end of the war you kill twice as many RB units, you might end up with double more land
Ot4e: do I need to talk in relative ?
no
аз: relative is OK too
Ot4e: lol
you must be kidding heh
but I think the talk can go around 1 or 2 cities
not those kind as on the ice island
but something like that
аз: I am already far from thinking we will all clap hands and happily divide the land, there will be bargaining, sore feelings, someone will feel cheated, etc. so that is why I prefer to keep it emotionless as possible. lets everyone say what he wants and others can say if they agree
1 city is totally OK for me at least
1 city more or less is OK
Ot4e: number of cities is bad measure
аз: then give better
Ot4e: I will think
аз: I said "good land tiles" and you said it is not good too, where I think it is good
Ot4e: this is also not good
heh
аз: I can say that resource is about 1 or 2 additional "good land tile" worth
well, think and come up with what you think is better measurement
Изпратено в 16:31, сряда
MZprox: count every tile which gives at least 4 food and divide those tiles equally with the corresponding cities ofc
Ot4e: Measurement is complicated. We must take in account everything. But I do trust my eyes in this.
Stop trolling, MZ
MZprox: I1m not trolling
аз: in Bulgaria we have a saying "Man's eyes are greedy"
MZprox: it was a kinda suggestion to agree on something which could be measured and none of us really would know the result at the moment and also sounds fair
аз: if I understood correctly, ot4e, you are talking about something like 10% more of the spoil to you?
I agree with MZ
tiles can be counted
Ot4e: % are tricky
Изпратено в 16:35, сряда
аз: I also want to put 2 facts straight. how much units CivFR brought and how much RB units they killed
approximately
1?
5?
15?
55?
MZprox: i think we really should forget about the frenchies now. Ot4e said they are helping him and will not ask anything
аз: but the french help was the reason ot4e asks for more of the gains
Ot4e: I think their ~30 cuirassiers terrified and made RB forfeit while they could entertain us for 5-10 more turns at least
аз: oh, 30 cuirs french brought?
thats a lot
MZprox: not as i understand: He lost more units and spent lots of gold (espionage and upgrades, part of those upgrades went for french)
Ot4e: they didnt kill much or lost much compared to us
for you I think it is the best to count them as our forces
agree with MZ
I dont ask more just for inviting frenchies
аз: if it is who lost most units, this we will see at the end of the war
Ot4e: but a bit more for the strategic missions performed
and only possible with their forces
because ours are on and even beyond the limit
аз: ok, I get it as we count French units as ot4e's
MZprox: really a side note, but i would had preferred if we don't turn this war into a 4 vs 1, but doesn't matter now
аз: I admire each way of helping the common goal
MZprox: rb even counts wpc too
аз: yes, they count WPC too
Ot4e: all want to kick dead corpse
MZprox: i nned to go afk for 15, brb
аз: not all, but the ones who are afraid to draw a knife to alive dog
Ot4e: we could do this without them if you focused more on killing RB units but not capturing inca
But I do not blame you for this
so as I dont blame you, Metra for trying to have less loses
аз: lets get back to the basics - without ANY of us 3, this would had been not possible
Ot4e: and delaying exchanges and healings
Изпратено в 16:43, сряда
Ot4e: yes, this agreed
Изпратено в 16:46, сряда
аз: with this in mind, and the new map I will at last make tonight, lets draw borders
Изпратено в 16:48, сряда
аз: everyone can use methods that he desires for argumentation why the borders should be like this and then specify the method
Ot4e: ok, lets finally try to do it
аз: yes, I think this will be solid foundation for any bargains
Изпратено в 16:49, сряда
аз: with my naive nature I even imagine how the borders we draw match perfectly
Изпратено в 16:51, сряда
MZprox: he he
аз: I want to ask you to draw where borders with the other 2 nations go
this way it is easier to visualize
MZprox: as for inca land if we don't take it fast they could had slaved/drafted far more units and to take the final cities we just got enough troops for that, so all in all it went close to perfect
аз: it was tricky indeed
Изпратено в 16:54, сряда

I will make this map hopefully at last tonight and we all can have our say.

 

[2metraninja]

Here are the screenshots from this turn t180 from MZ:

Spoiler :

 

[2metraninja]

And here is the map where we must draw the new borders.

Spoiler :