[Warlords] Battle of Hastings

[Flintlock1415]

Okay, I just PMed NwabudikeMorgan and posted a new thread asking for help from the Mac forum. Hopefully those who run Windows on their Mac can offer some extra help, as I am flying blind with support. (Maybe its time to get Civ Complete?)
Thanks for the proof of the Crossbows, and the New main menu suggestions. Honestly I love that painting (better than a statue or even the Tapestry) but I just couldn't find a large enough photo.

<ReplytoRant> I tried, but I couldn't resist replying to to your little rant. Before I begin, I completely agree w/ Ajidica that this shouldn't and WILL NOT become a Mac v. PC warthread. I swear to god, if anyone mentions this after I post, they will be reported. Anyway, I will contend that Mac gaming isn't that great (except Blizzard, who should buy the rights to Civ5.) Also Aspyr really did a horrible job appealing to the Mac gaming community (crappy ports, late patches, and on top of the that no BTS or SDK, even coding hooks so we could do it ourselves? Come on, you've got to be kidding.) The plus side to to Macs is that you can have both worlds. (I've got Colonization running beautifully under Crossover Games.) I much prefer the interface/end-user features plus the high stability. These are my preferences, and anyone who says one is better than the other is ignorant and can stay away. Each person has their own preferences, and we'll leave it at that.</ReplytoRant>

 

[LDiCesare]

Crossbows: The Normans did use them at Hastings, at least according to the Warhammer Historical Dark Age Britain supplement book, which is generaly pretty accurate.

I gave the name of the historical evidence, the 2 Norman authors who wrote about it in 1067 and, 1075, right after the battle. I think they are better references than Warhammer .
My remark when comparing them to archers in terms of effectiveness was more stat-wise. I think they shouldn't be twice as strong as regular archers for instance, as they weren't yet very sophisticated. There's also evidence of crossbows used by tax collectors at that time, probably because they were fast to shoot (already loaded). I don't really know how to best represent the difference between bows and crossbows stat-wise, though. The bonus vs. melee of reegular civ may be enough, or more first strikes to the bow despite lesser strength?

 

[AlanH]

This mod is for Warlords 2.08. I made this for Warlords because I don't own any Windows versions of Civ4. This is and always will be compatible with Mac computers and should also be the same for Windows.

Warlords Version 2.13 is available for the Mac, and has been since this thread was posted a year ago.

 

[Flintlock1415]

@ LdiCesare
I think I will drop the Xbow strength to a 4 or a 5, and I've already dropped the melee bonus considerably. I gave them to ability to bomard city defenses (quite lightly) because William used his bows to bombard the shield wall. I didn't give to the archers however, because the game sets them up as defensive units and I doubt the AI would like the change.

@AlanH
I know about the patch and upgraded as of last night, but I stayed away from it because Civ Gold was for 2.08 and the patch was 841 MB.

 

[AlanH]

Yes, I saw you had upgraded. I didn't want an impression to persist that 2.08 was a Mac limitation. There are already enough restrictions when playing the Mac versions

I've donwloaded your existing version. I'll have a look at the problems of Windows compatibility later today.

 

[Ajidica]

Perhaps drop the xbow strength down a bit, but keep the melee bonus. A flat trajectory bolt is more powerful (with the bows in use at the time, english longbows were better than the majroity of xbows.) than an arcing shot. Lest of all, the bows being used were all self bows (single piece of wood) that were weaker than composites, longbows, or xbows. Perhaps also give them a reduced cost, as they were easier to train than archers.

 

[Flintlock1415]

@ AlanH
Thanks for the help! You always seem to come to my rescue!

@ Ajidica
I was thinking this for the Xbow:
Str: 4
melee bonus: +25%
Bombard: -5-10%
Hammers: 5-10 less than current; if I go lower than the archers, then I will make having them more worth the Xbow.
Thoughts?

 

[Flintlock1415]

AlanH has been helping me with this problem, and has worked through some XML errors with the mod. For anyone who is interested, please check out this thread to help me out! (the 'fixed' XML folder is on post 2)
Thank you!

 

[Flintlock1415]

I've updated the mod to include the fixed XML, along with changed crossbowman stats and I removed some units from the Norman invasionary forces, namely the Papal Knight and a few others. Note: The XML fixes doesn't allow the mod to load on Windows, but I am working on this. For issues concerning the Windows load problem, see this thread. Discussion for balancing, additions, etc. can be held here or in the Development Thread (the one linked above.)
Thanks to anyone who helps me out on resolving this issue!

 

[BTSformac]

What are the average unit strengths?

Also remember that if you have lower strength, unit bonuses will decrease (25% of 4 is only one, but 25% of 8 or 9 is 2 or more).

 

[Flintlock1415]

The unit strengths are pretty standard, just some bonus changes to UUs. What would you recommend for the Xbow bonus? should I stay w/ +50%?

 

[BTSformac]

Well, it depends on the strength of infantry. Un-modded Xbow has 6 strength and 50% bonus. this gives them one point advantage over the comparable melee unit, maceman. But in your mod, if they had swordsmen you would still likely lose, so 50% might not be a bad idea.

Of course this is your mod, so do what you want to do.

 

[Flintlock1415]

Okay, now I get what your saying. The crossbow appears quite a ways before the maceman, so it will be going up against axes, swords, and warriors. A secondary function of the Xbow is to bombard city defenses; a sort of precursor to cats & trebs. I think the Norman Crossbow should get a +50% vs. melee, and the regular crossbowman somewhere around +30% vs. melee.

Don't worry about this being 'my mod' as I need suggestions to make this mod better!

 

[BTSformac]

yeah, 30% is a bit better, though it is only barely better than axeman. if they are going against those units then i guess it would be ok.

Hope the alpha version is running soon!

 

[Flintlock1415]

Alright! Sedna17 found the error that prevented the mod from loading on Windows! It was a stupid space in the building artdefines file. There is still an error with loading the map, however, but I'm working on a solution for it. One thing I noticed in the WBS file is the Modpath tag in the first few lines.

Anyone who cares to try, delete the space at the very start of the Artdefines_Buildings.xml file. Then change this:

ModPath=

To this:

ModPath=Battle of Hastings

Hopefully this solves the problems, and if not I'll continue working on this until I find a solution!

 

[Flintlock1415]

Well, it depends on the strength of infantry. Un-modded Xbow has 6 strength and 50% bonus. this gives them one point advantage over the comparable melee unit, maceman. But in your mod, if they had swordsmen you would still likely lose, so 50% might not be a bad idea.

Of course this is your mod, so do what you want to do.

you can beta test for me if you'd like, as the errors are only for Windows. This is provided you've picked up Warlords already.

 

[Flintlock1415]

Okay, I updated the mod. I think it should work for Windows users, but I don't know unless you guys can tell me! Please, if you download 0.1bBeta, tell me if it works!
Thanks!

 

[Flintlock1415]

Well, I've decided to put this mod on hold for a while. The fact that I really don't have Windows base with the bugs and BTS, added to the tiny mac users base on this site (at least those interested in using mods) is enough reason for me to stop this mod for a while.

Please note I will continue working on this as soon as I get BTS and can port it over, or if interest in this is sparked again.

I'm not done with modding, as I am trying to learn python, units, animations, and other things. I'm going to start making a sort of expansion mod for myself and just add in things I think are cool. I will release it when its ready, but for the most part it will be sort of a personal mod. If I create anything cool along the way, I'll make sure I release it here!

 

[Ajidica]

Thats to bad. Isnt it possible to run Windows while still using a mac with a virtual PC thing or something? (Thats what my school does to get around the fact the only comps they can have are macs.) I suppose that you dont want to hear that the 'fixed' version for me crashes on 'Init Engine'. Good luck with your other projects. (Especialy units, the Light Cavalry was nice. We were lacking any generic dark age light cavalry. A interesting project would be to rebone it to the keshik animation and have it attack using a spear.)

 

[Flintlock1415]

Yea, I've got Crossover, so I could go out and buy BTS, but I'm just going to wait for my Birthday to do get it (rather than drop $50 myself for the whole package.) I've got Colonization running nicely already.
I want to get into some mechanical units first, and learn to animate that way, then expand into anything else that interests me. On top of all that, I'm learning to write programs, and hopefully I can make some utilities to make my life easier.

I guess right now I've got so much that I want to learn, that updating this mod for a small handful of people (if any) just isn't worth it.