Warlords: Total Realism 2.0

[Exerior]

Defense promotion is likewise a bit too strong. +20% in all terrain makes Garrison Promotion useless. Less of an issue than the attack thing though.WarKirby

I guess, the defense promotion doesn't work in city ...

 

[WarKirby]

Are you sure? I thought it did work in cities.

WarKirby

 

[Houman]

Alright the idea behind promotions after (hotfix)

Combat 1-6 give 10, 12,14,18,20,26% =100% total for attack and defense. The good thing about this promotion is its alroundness. But its expensive.

Attack 1-3 give each (after hotfix) 32% combat but -44% on defense. Therefore if you attack you receive 32% but if you defend you get -12% therefore you are weaker while defending. Level 4 gives 39% combat and -58% defense. If you have Attack 1-4, this would mean having after only 4 promotions 135% attackrate but -55% in defense.

Defense 1 -3 is -12 for combat and 32% for defense. Level 4 is -19% combat and 39% defense. While attacking it would give -55% and in defending +80% bonus (damn...)

The problem is that combat rate is affecting defense and attack, while defense doesn't. We need someone who is really good with numbers and not as tired as I am now. How can be make them like each other bit in mirror?

I suggest increasing all raiders and garrisons to 25% instead of 20% each step.

What do you think?

P.S. had anyone a great general already? Is the name civ specific?

HOuman

 

[Hian the Frog]

Alright the idea behind promotions after (hotfix)

Combat 1-6 give 10, 12,14,18,20,26% =100% total for attack and defense. The good thing about this promotion is its alroundness. But its expensive.

Attack 1-3 give each (after hotfix) 32% combat but -44% on defense. Therefore if you attack you receive 32% but if you defend you get -12% therefore you are weaker while defending. Level 4 gives 39% combat and -58% defense. If you have Attack 1-4, this would mean having after only 4 promotions 135% attackrate but -55% in defense.

Defense 1 -3 is -12 for combat and 32% for defense. Level 4 is -19% combat and 39% defense. While attacking it would give -55% and in defending +80% bonus (damn...)

The problem is that combat rate is affecting defense and attack, while defense doesn't. We need someone who is really good with numbers and not as tired as I am now. How can be make them like each other bit in mirror?

I suggest increasing all raiders and garrisons to 25% instead of 20% each step.

What do you think?

P.S. had anyone a great general already? Is the name civ specific?

HOuman

Hi Houman,

At first, it seems good. Need to be tested.
I will have a look on your number problem. Not sure my brain will not overheat, but i will have a look....

May you tell me what you think of my idea on ressource thread, please ?
When will you publish an improved/corrected TR world map ?

The frog.

 

[Houman]

corrected map will come with Beta 3 I am afraid. Very busy... Beta 3 is planned hopefully soon.

 

[MindProphetX]

pictures are wrong, always saying Blascal Pl....??? or something like that plus I have a question. It seems I'm getting Great General's from combat however, when (and if that is the case) I get them they appear in cities on the other side of my empire unless of course the city is producing them???
I think I have walls in them??

 

[WarKirby]

@Houman: Luckily, I have a head for numbers.

Here are my thoughts on the situation.

• Attack: Too strong. It makes City attack useless. The -12% defence is not enough to balance it, because in addition to being stronger than city attack, it works on any target rather than cities only. I recommend cutting the bonus to 20%, and the penalty to defence at -40%. (actually working out to -20%)
• Defence: Again too strong. Apply the same principle, cut bonus to 20%, and attack penalty to 40%.(working out to -20% attack)
• City Attack: Too weak. Make it 25% per level.
• Garrison: Likewise, 25% per level.
• Forest/hill/tundra/desert bonuses. I would set back to 25%. They're a bit too much.

What do you guys think?

WarKirby

 

[MindProphetX]

other than the aforementioned mistakes with the promo system, it appears that when you upgrade a unit to say attack lv:1 it gives the unit plus 32% strenth???? wtf... anyway what I'm saying is even when you try to attack them they -12 % defense is useless because they still have +20% strength, almost invincible....attacking or defending especially with several promos... thats all the ai ever uses for promos is the attack and occasionally the defense to support the attacking units

 

[MindProphetX]

can't raze cities???, there isn't an option after you conquer one, it just tells you about the pillage and technology uncovered etc...

 

[WarKirby]

MindProphetX: The extremely high values are a result of Houman error. In his above post, houman indicates what they were meant to be. My suggestions were rebalances of those values before a patch is released to fix it.

I suggest just not playing until this is addressed. Or you could edit the XML yourself? You're looking for

your directory/Sid Meier's Civilisation IV/warlords/mods/Total Realism/assets/XML/Units/CIV4PromotionInfos.xml

It's pretty simple to find and alter the appropriate values in there. hopefully Houman will take my suggestions and make a patch real soon, as this makes it practically unplayable.

WarKirby

 

[Anaztazioch]

CTD in Warlords TR.

Occures in ?emperor? or one point less diff., classical age, having bronze working, also used World Builder many time to put religions in places i see them fit. Crashes every time i do this:

Enter diplomacy screen and try to trade whith foreign religion civ "propose a trade", right after clicking that CTD.

Strange this is that when a foreign civ offers you a trade - it dont crash. When you select lets negotiate, doesnt crash, but if i agree or dont agree and than start "propose a deal" it crashes.

This is a hurried report, as it happened only in 1 game, and i allso mad used WB

I shall send a save game when this CTD appear in non WB game.



But there is a bug witch rely more to Warlords, but didnt played vanilla Warlords, so thats why i post it here.

Its a non CTD bug no fear. Its just that new civilization contacts does not "hide" when entering city/World Builder. They are annoying as Mehmed II is disallowing me to put assing priests... The contacts i mean the ones whith score as well as disposition on bottom right of screen as default.

(copy-paste from bug reports, as this be only a beta Warlords TR [2.0 bta 2])

 

[Anaztazioch]

Dont whine about defance promotion.
Just bombard(run him whith cheap high withdraw units such as siegeones as dale is not implanted) that SOB, and even his lvl 94384376 defance wont save his behind.

 

[Houman]

@Houman: Luckily, I have a head for numbers.

Here are my thoughts on the situation.

• Attack: Too strong. It makes City attack useless. The -12% defence is not enough to balance it, because in addition to being stronger than city attack, it works on any target rather than cities only. I recommend cutting the bonus to 20%, and the penalty to defence at -40%. (actually working out to -20%)
• Defence: Again too strong. Apply the same principle, cut bonus to 20%, and attack penalty to 40%.(working out to -20% attack)
• City Attack: Too weak. Make it 25% per level.
• Garrison: Likewise, 25% per level.
• Forest/hill/tundra/desert bonuses. I would set back to 25%. They're a bit too much.

What do you guys think?

WarKirby

I think this is a good idea. Combined with Frogs suggestion of making the Attack and defense first lower but rising with the levels.

Combat1: 10%
Combat2: 12%
Combat3: 14%
Combat4: 18%
Combat5: 20%
Combat6: 26%
Total 100%

Attack1: 20%, -40% (effective -20%)
Attack2: 23%, -46% (effective -23%)
Attack3: 26%, -52% (effective -26%)
Attack4: 31%, -62% (effective -31%)
Total 100% in attack (-100% in defense)

Defense1: -20%, 40% (effective 20%)
Defense2: -23%, 46% (effective 23%)
Defense3: -26%, 52% (effective 26%)
Defense4: -31%, 62% (effective 31%)
Total (-100% in attack) 100% in defense

Raider1: 25%
Raider2: 25%
Raider3: 25%
Raider4: 25%

Garrison1: 25%
Garrison2: 25%
Garrison3: 25%
Garrison4: 25%

What do you think? I guess I got it now...

 

[MindProphetX]

I think this is a good idea. Combined with Frogs suggestion of making the Attack and defense first lower but rising with the levels.

Combat1: 10%
Combat2: 12%
Combat3: 14%
Combat4: 18%
Combat5: 20%
Combat6: 26%
Total 100%

Attack1: 20%, -40% (effective -20%)
Attack2: 23%, -46% (effective -23%)
Attack3: 26%, -52% (effective -26%)
Attack4: 31%, -62% (effective -31%)
Total 100% in attack (-100% in defense)

Defense1: -20%, 40% (effective 20%)
Defense2: -23%, 46% (effective 23%)
Defense3: -26%, 52% (effective 26%)
Defense4: -31%, 62% (effective 31%)
Total (-100% in attack) 100% in defense

Raider1: 25%
Raider2: 25%
Raider3: 25%
Raider4: 25%

Garrison1: 25%
Garrison2: 25%
Garrison3: 25%
Garrison4: 25%

What do you think? I guess I got it now...

make it happen, sounds perfect at least for those promotions Great job as usual

 

[Hian the Frog]

I think this is a good idea. Combined with Frogs suggestion of making the Attack and defense first lower but rising with the levels.

Combat1: 10%
Combat2: 12%
Combat3: 14%
Combat4: 18%
Combat5: 20%
Combat6: 26%
Total 100%

Attack1: 20%, -40% (effective -20%)
Attack2: 23%, -46% (effective -23%)
Attack3: 26%, -52% (effective -26%)
Attack4: 31%, -62% (effective -31%)
Total 100% in attack (-100% in defense)

Defense1: -20%, 40% (effective 20%)
Defense2: -23%, 46% (effective 23%)
Defense3: -26%, 52% (effective 26%)
Defense4: -31%, 62% (effective 31%)
Total (-100% in attack) 100% in defense

Raider1: 25%
Raider2: 25%
Raider3: 25%
Raider4: 25%

Garrison1: 25%
Garrison2: 25%
Garrison3: 25%
Garrison4: 25%

What do you think? I guess I got it now...

Hi Houman,

IMO, it seems good. Very good.
I also suggest to lower the value of Desert combat, Artic combat,...to 25%.
I'm not sure of this but it seems that the movement bonus of Desert combat doesn't work...

When will you release a small patch for these changes ?

The Frog.

 

[Houman]

Hi Houman,

IMO, it seems good. Very good.
I also suggest to lower the value of Desert combat, Artic combat,...to 25%.
I'm not sure of this but it seems that the movement bonus of Desert combat doesn't work...

When will you release a small patch for these changes ?

The Frog.

Very well then. It is done. I have changed the value for Woodsman, Hillsman and desert and cold. Desert and Cold promotion give no extra movement (sinc only one level) but from now they give also a Movement discount.

Hotpatch attached. Extract it into the Total Realism folder
:

 

[Hian the Frog]

Very well then. It is done. I have changed the value for Woodsman, Hillsman and desert and cold. Desert and Cold promotion give no extra movement (sinc only one level) but from now they give also a Movement discount.

Hotpatch attached. Extract it into the Total Realism folder
:

Houman,

Great . Day after day, week after week, your mod is becoming.... AWESOME !

The (happy) Frog

 

[Hian the Frog]

Houman,

Mouvement discount is a good thing, sure. But it's only usefull for units that have at least 2 movement points... I've just test it with an Arabian archer, and it's useless... Meanwhile, the 30% defence bonus is a good value.
One day, when you will get time to do it, it would be good to "clean" all texts of promos. Some are now not adapted and some are missing...
I know, i'm boring , i'm never happy,.... It's because i like this mod.

The Frog.

 

[MindProphetX]

There might be another promotion error with woodland and hills defense. The grassland, desert, tundra, plains etc... defense promotion gives you plus 40% defense at the first level and the woodland and hills defense give 20-25% respectively, now here is the problem...
The defense promotion enables you 40% in every square because every square is labeled with at least plains, grassland etc.. even if its on a hill or in a forest.

 

[WarKirby]

Hold on, the defense promotion's bonuses add up to 200%.

And anyway even if the added up to 100%, it would still be so powerful as to render city/forest/desert/tundra promotions practically useless/

Check your math Houman. Also, for both attack and defence promotions, I recommend stretching it to 100% over 5 levels, not 4. they give too much of a bonus per level.