Mirc
Not mIRC!!!
Actually, I have proof. But it's in Romanian. But yeah, I mentioned it could have been different.
Was life really that bad in the Soviet Union?
- Thread starter CCA
- Start date
Actually, I have proof. But it's in Romanian. But yeah, I mentioned it could have been different.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
I am serious and I understand why my parents did it.
If your country was occupied and ran by the USSR, I'm sure you would despise the people responsible for it in the first place, too.
BEHIND_THE_MASK said:
I agree that Lenin was a poor choice.. but it was not the person I was spitting at, but rather the things he represented.
It was all pretty symbolic
Gelion
Retired Captain
I may understand how you feel, but sorry there's something sickening about parents teaching a kid to spit on something.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
I find the occupation and subjugation of my country by another magnitudes more sickening, to the point of rendering your point that my parents actions are sickening meaningless.
Gelion
Retired Captain
Not your parents, only that part they taught you.
Frankly I could hate Hitler for what he has done to my nation. I dont spit on his photos.
I could hate Yeltsin for how much he has stolen. I dont spit on his photos.
I could hate Bzejinsky for wanting to subdue and destroy my country. I dont spit on his photos.
I dont know how to react because your words remind me of those people who hated everything Soviet and wanted to leave the country because everything sickened them back home. I dont have a problem with that. I have a problem with people who continue to sh*t on everything Soviet while living somewhere else. Spitting on the photos of Stalin fits well into that category.
I really hope I am wrong about you and your parents. Its just that I've met too many people from the abovementioned category.
TheBladeRoden
Deity
Since you say you could hate them, does that mean you don't really? If so, not spitting on them makes sense.
Gelion
Retired Captain
I have a few more important things to worry about than ritually spit on someone's photo every morning or have 5 minutes of hate on a certain day
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Uhm.. I was like 3 years old dude.
As for my parents, their country was occupied by a foreign power. Of course they weren't going to show it any respect!
Sheesh
We could care less about the USSR now, it is long dead.
Illdisposed
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2006
- Messages
- 73
USSR was not a police state, you say. Got anything to back that up?
And do you mean that an average USSR citizen had a "possible" car? Maybe the situation is totally different, but in 1980 there were 300 cars in Bucharest, which had 1.600.000 people at the time. That's not exactly "a car for the average person"...
You are comparing Ceauşescu's Romania with Soviet Union, and in my eyes it is slightly irrelevant. The situation in totalitarian Romania at the time was truly disastrous, while USSR was an authoritarian state where people enjoyed better conditions. In fact, the countries of the eastern block were different from the USSR in many ways. Soviets did not care what was going on there except from the ideological and political factors. Just like the US did not care whether the government in the "third world countries" was democratic or not, their concern was only if it was anticommunist. I suppose, you would not compare the USA with, lets say, Salvador, or Greece, or Turkey. Therefore you shouldn't do that with USSR and Poland, Hungary, Mongolia, Cuba or others for that matter. I realize that the example is a gross exaggeration, but you get the idea.
Now, in regards to your question about the police state we would probably had to define this "police state" thing. Well, generally it is characterized by repressive control of the government over the social, economic and political life of the people, violation of human rights, secret police, absence of the rule of law, and other things of that nature. I mentioned that during Stalin years USSR was a fine example of the police state, however afterwards the elements of the totalitarianism were not present. Repressive control of the government over the social, economic and political life of the people? Violation of human rights? Secret police? Absence of the rule of law? Well, maybe to a little extent. How about the PATRIOT Act in the US? I stated that the people's rights were only suppressed within the confines of the political sphere, although civil, legal, economic areas weren't affected.
I hope that clears things a bit.
Lone Wolf
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2006
- Messages
- 9,908
There IS something unacceptable about parents teaching a child to spit on someone's photos. Teaching someone so young to hate (no matter whom) is destructive, plain and simple.
And yes, I would not like to see someone teaching their kid to spit on Hitler's photos, althrough, as a half-Russian, half-Jew I have many reasons to dislike Hitler.
And yes, I would not like to see someone teaching their kid to spit on Hitler's photos, althrough, as a half-Russian, half-Jew I have many reasons to dislike Hitler.
"Quoted for truth", as they say nowadays.
Illdisposed, thank you for your points - very interesting stuff.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Unacceptable? Sheesh!
Don't you see the humour in this? My parents sure did, as did my grandparents.. as well as me, when I was old enough to understand this.
Perhaps it isn't my parents who have a problem.. maybe it's people who think this is 'unacceptable' and that my parents were teaching hate.
Pokurcz
Emperor
Actually the seventies in Poland were great, from one point of view, and are seen by many who lived then as the golden years.
But the problem is that the huge leaps in improvement in those days were made by taking huge loans that Poland is still paying today. The system in it self was not able to provide the means needed, and at the same time Poland, and other Warsaw pact countries, had to send goods to the USSR that they received payment for which was below the market value.
In the USSR the situation was similar from what I gather. Huge amounts of money where made on the expense of satellite nations for the USSR and further money was sucked out of the less important regions to Moscow, and other “faces” to the west, and to the arms industry.
Not to mention the non monetary costs of a devastated environment, that people will have to pay in the future.
As we all know the arms race broke the systems back, but as the investments where often made for the sake of the ongoing revolution and “show off” enterprises, it still was an imaginary perpetuum mobile that still needed the influx of a growing economy, which wasn’t there. You couldn’t make it work by wishing hard enough.
So communism was as much an unreachable utopia as ever.
But the problem is that the huge leaps in improvement in those days were made by taking huge loans that Poland is still paying today. The system in it self was not able to provide the means needed, and at the same time Poland, and other Warsaw pact countries, had to send goods to the USSR that they received payment for which was below the market value.
In the USSR the situation was similar from what I gather. Huge amounts of money where made on the expense of satellite nations for the USSR and further money was sucked out of the less important regions to Moscow, and other “faces” to the west, and to the arms industry.
Not to mention the non monetary costs of a devastated environment, that people will have to pay in the future.
As we all know the arms race broke the systems back, but as the investments where often made for the sake of the ongoing revolution and “show off” enterprises, it still was an imaginary perpetuum mobile that still needed the influx of a growing economy, which wasn’t there. You couldn’t make it work by wishing hard enough.
So communism was as much an unreachable utopia as ever.
Most likely thats because they quickly got tired of all the questions. Especially questions like : "Did you work in KGB ?", "Do you have summer in Russia ?", "Are you a communist ?", and other crap like this.
Its not bad on itself, its just that humans are first and foremost - greedy , dirty animals. So when you have a choice to : a) do something for society as whole, and b) get something for yourself - the latter will be chosen in 99% cases. Maybe when we evolve mentally, somewhat...
Did you know that in Star Trek humanity use communism ?
Easy to keep your dignity, but hard to keep your brains in a working order, i guess.
Russia was occupied with Poles several times, so that despise is mutual.
Pokurcz
Emperor
"Russia was occupied with Poles several times, so that despise is mutual."
That was
A: Quite some time ago.
B: Not nearly as long or bad as what the Russians have done.
Basically the only thing harmed is Russian pride.
That was
A: Quite some time ago.
B: Not nearly as long or bad as what the Russians have done.
Basically the only thing harmed is Russian pride.
Gelion
Retired Captain
Who are you to judge that? How far in history do we go back to determine what is important and what should be forgotten? Trust me we can only live in peace together if both sides forget and forgive.
Pokurcz
Emperor
Well Poland has never sent tens of thousands of Russian officers and intelligentsia to Siberian prison camps or executed thousands of Officers en masse in forests in present time Belarus.
So I wouldn't call it a matter of judgment, but rather an order of several magnitudes much more vicious crimes perpetrated by Russians against Poles.
Who are you to talk about BS like "forget and forgive" when you are on the side that has constantly committed the lion share of the crimes and at the same time have the stomach to suggest that the misdeeds made by both sides are somehow equally large?
So I wouldn't call it a matter of judgment, but rather an order of several magnitudes much more vicious crimes perpetrated by Russians against Poles.
Who are you to talk about BS like "forget and forgive" when you are on the side that has constantly committed the lion share of the crimes and at the same time have the stomach to suggest that the misdeeds made by both sides are somehow equally large?
Gelion
Retired Captain
My country died in 1917. You are in no position to blame the Russians for the crimes of the Soviet Union. Try and remember which nationalities ran the show in USSR. Russians were a minority in % to total population.
Lets not forget a bit of history here. It has only been 70-80 yeasr since Poland tried to re-establish an Empire in Belarus and Ukraine (a nation subdued for centuries. What do they do when they are set free? Conquer the lands of others). 1939 Czechoslovakia land grab? Poland is there.
Humans are scaringly the same. Understand that to learn to forgive. The fact that Poland had less chances (or was weaker) in the big power game does not excuse the side that has done "less crimes", because chances are they simply could not, but wanted to. Want to come back the issue of Soviet prisoners who died in polish death...concentration camps in 1920's? We both have things to blame the other side for. So... either we consider the whole of history and begin drawing up "accounts to be paid" or we try and do something breathtakingly new and forget about history. Sadly as long as politics exists, the latter is never an option.
Wait, if the Russians weren't running the show in the USSR, who was? I know Stalin was Georgian, but other than that it seemed like just another type of Russian imperialism.
Lol that is so True lolMost likely thats because they quickly got tired of all the questions. Especially questions like : "Did you work in KGB ?", "Do you have summer in Russia ?", "Are you a communist ?", and other crap like this.
Except they never said KGB they just said spy and whether I was a dictator and whether russian people are very hot
Not all of them but all SLAVS are hot But those that rate Russia's current condition are lists are very misleading, why is Russia rated worse then Afganistan and Turkey?
Heck it's "democracy and Freedom" rating is worse then Saudia Arabia?
"If the events in Kiev vindicate the US in its strategies for helping other people win elections and take power from anti-democratic regimes, it is certain to try to repeat the exercise elsewhere in the post-Soviet world.
The places to watch are Moldova and the authoritarian countries of central Asia."
Friends from Ukraine (my moms friends
) don't think that their life has gotten any better then before, all they got now is a Pro- American governemt, I don't believe for a minute that any a Regime does is Pragmatic and not to support some ideology like Liberty and Equality! Which Communism mostly invented, people do not support communism for it's economical benfits. There is also some confusion about what liberty/equality is,
ex. Number one Best times seller in America " Defending Freedom; Winning the war on Terror, Secularism and Liberty"
??????? Defending Freedom? Winning the War on Liberty?
Thank god most students now a days are more liberal then conserative,
Personally I like the diea of a Student Protest
Don't worry I ain't a Communist lover and I wish it never happened but then again most of the orignal people who did like arn't around anymore,
I don't think a Utopian society communism describes is possible, there is enough wealth in the world to end poverty and hunger and famine, but people would rather keep one million dollars for themselves, few would want to give up everything they workded so hard to get.
My Russia died in 1700 though, I don't like Peter's reforms.
I think russia had a very unique society that didn't need reforms, War with Sweden or not
TO ERAN OF ARCADIA---> It wouldn't matter whether it was authentic Slavic Russian that were running the show or not,
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