Waterboarding

[Sharwood]

That was not the only thing.

Not at all, bring it on. I know I'm gonna live without harm, big deal.

You're also going to live without harm if you're sodomised. So, you want us to bring that on?

 

[philippe]

That was not the only thing.

Except for those that got trialed for exactly that, hmm?

Bu wait, that's right, we shouldn't discuss history with you, last time you compared casualties of different countries of WWII, you left out countries like france and such (actually most countries) and let Spain and Sweden in, i came out and told you did a hackjob, but you never dared to reply.

Living in denial? The CFC-version of Pravda?

 

[Ecofarm]

No sodomy just waterboarding, thanks.

Bu wait, that's right, we shouldn't discuss history with you, last time you compared casualties of different countries of WWII, you left out countries like france and such (actually most countries) and let Spain and Sweden in, i came out and told you did a hackjob, but you never dared to reply.

Don't be dumb. Someone said that the US had suffered FAR fewer casualities than european countries.

I listed:

UK
France (yes, I included France, look again)
Italy
and a few other countries that were chosen rather randomly from mainland europe. The other countries I listed didn't matter anyway as anyone besides UK, France, Italy had nowhere near the US casualities... but I thought I should show that and I did.

Sorry I didn't list them all, but I proved my point. The US did not suffer WAY less casualities than europeans. The numbers were (approx.)

UK 400k
France 400k
US 400k

Other Euro countries (besides Germany).... MUCH MUCH less.

I don't know why you feel the need to make things up about me, but I'm flattered that you would lie to discredit me nonetheless. Feel free to link to said conversation, so you can look stupid.

Of course, when it became apparent that the US did not suffer WAY less casualities than european nations, it was suggested that I look at Japan but I've no idea how that relates to the discussion of US vs. European casualities; at that point I left the thread.

My point was simple and I proved it (even though he objected "but you didn't include Germany", as if the discussion was Germany vs. US casualities - when it was EUROPE). Don't cry too much.

 

[philippe]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7308996&postcount=149
reactions:http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7309172&postcount=150

Yeah the lack of Germany in there makes that list pretty laughable. Also you have to take into account the fact that the US wasn't bombed like the UK or Germany - I'd say thats the main factor in turning popular opinion away from warmongering. You can't say that France, UK and Italy at ~1% of the total population compared to the US's .3% is a negligable difference. It's three times the US figure - that's pretty significant. Besides the key figure is civilian deaths - 1700 - how can you say thats comparable to european's experience?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7309239&postcount=152

and I meant nazi-germany instead of france, well yeah, you can call that a lie, but i just recalled wrongly, boohoo, the fact still remains you did a hackjob, you never responded to Arwon's post if you know what American exceptionalism is. Cut and run \o/

@Ecofarm. Your stats show that the UK and France lost a proportion of their population that is between 3 and 4 times as much as the US. Italy is similar. Not only that, but their physical damage was much greater. The US was definitely much better off.

oh and I was rather pissed off you warped your data, leaving a lot out, you dissapointed me in it.

why didn't you post the full chart?

oh that's right, it would have even more discredited your point.

 

[Ecofarm]

Because the discussion was European country casualities vs. US casualities.

I included:

France
UK
Italy
Spain
Sweden
Some others.

The important thing was UK and France. I threw Italy in there to be nice. Spain, Sweden, etc are the same... very few casualities... I don't see how it makes a difference WHICH of the few casuality nations I presented. The point was to present that others besides the UK and France did not suffer anywhere near the casualities that the US did. Do you think including all 15 or so countries with very few casualities was necessary? I figured showing a couple was good enough, since I had included every country with casualities anywhere near the US. Germany is a given, don't be thick skulled. What would be the point in including the outlier that everyone knows??


Did the US suffer FAR fewer casualities than European countries? No. Case closed.

Only Germany (and Poland) suffered significantly higher casualities. Ergo, the person I was reponding to was full of it.

How you interpret my statistical rebuttal as hackery is beyond me. Someone said the US suffered FAR less casualities and I proved them wrong. It was totally legit.

 

[philippe]

Because the discussion was European country casualities vs. US casualities.

I included:

France
UK
Italy
Spain
Sweden
Some others.

The important thing was UK and France. I threw Italy in there to be nice. Spain, Sweden, etc are the same... very few casualities... I don't see how it makes a difference WHICH of the few casuality nations I presented. The point was to present that others besides the UK and France did not suffer anywhere near the casualities that the US did. Germany is a given, don't be thick skulled.


Did the US suffer FAR fewer casualities than European countries? No. Case closed.

Spain and sweden never even were involved in the war, so you posted two neutral countries out of the five and said: look at how few casualties they have!

Look at the civilian deaths, even the smallest of countries have had larger casualties then the USA, for the military it's important to see the procentual of casualties (5000 deaths for a country as Belgium is way more devasting then for a country as the UK.)

in terms of procentual damage you guys suffered almost nothing compared to most countries. my graph (which is at least complete (some others? some others=none) )shows it exactly.


PS, you are spouting BS, even yugoslavia had in total more deaths military and civilian

USA 131,028,000 416,800 1,700 418,500 0.32%
Yugoslavia[58] 15,400,000 446,000 514,000 67,000 1,027,000 6.67%


And no, the discussion was that the USA got virtually unscathed out of WWII in contrary to a lot of other countries.

Because the discussion was European country casualities vs. US casualities

 

[Ecofarm]

Spain and sweden never even were involved in the war, so you posted two neutral countries out of the five and said: look at how few casualties they have!

How many times do I need to explain this:

I just grabbed two of the countries with a tiny number of casualities, to show where the range was after we left France, Italy, the UK and the US. Which ones didn't matter. They were all small numbers after those 4.

The US did not suffer significantly less casualities then european countries. And it CERTAINLY was not, as the person I was responding to put it "a cake walk that was just for fun for the US".

Look at the stats all you want, but don't miss:

UK 400k
France 400k
Italy 400k
US 400k

Others: very few k

Now, compare that to this (the statement I was responding to):

Meanwhile, America skated through the wars virtually unscathed. Comparatively speaking, Americans made very little in the way of sacrifice, suffered very little in the way of privation, and incurred very few casualties. For them it was a big exciting game

I proved that wrong. Get over it.

You can go on and on about infrastructure all you want, but the US did not "in comparison... incurred very few casualities".

Let's look at it comparitively, as the above poster suggests:

France, same
UK, same
Italy, same
Every other country except Germany and Poland, much much more.

Spare me your 5k deaths in Belgium. We lost half a million people and none were civilian victims.

 

[philippe]

How many times do I need to explain this:

I just grabbed two of the countries with a tiny number of casualities, to show where the range was after we left France, Italy, the UK and the US. Which ones didn't matter. They were all small numbers after those 4.

The US did not suffer significantly less casualities then european countries. And it CERTAINLY was not, as the person I was responding to put it "a cake walk that was just for fun for the US".

Look at the stats all you want, but don't miss:

UK 400k
France 400k
Italy 400k
US 400k

Others: very few k

you didn't even read the last post right?

you spinned and twisted and cherry picked statistics. that says enough.

go back, read up again, or get some logic, you are being obtuse.

Meanwhile, America skated through the wars virtually unscathed. Comparatively speaking, Americans made very little in the way of sacrifice, suffered very little in the way of privation, and incurred very few casualties. For them it was a big exciting game

in comparison with the other superpowers? Absolutely. When did NYC ever got firebombed, washington, philly, LA, SA?

you guys never experienced the terror of the blitz of the marauding germans in your cities. And procentual, as you have bene rebutted many times, you guys had way less casualties. you keep repeating france and italy 400k and USA 400k, but just look at the scale and total pop of those countries.

Let's see it in this way: what would be more affected by 400 000 deaths: Iran or the USA?

Oh and WWII was the last war you did anything good in in the minds of many, of course there have been a lot of movie, games and such about it.

 

[Ecofarm]

you spinned and twisted and cherry picked statistics. that says enough.

I included the 3 countries with similar levels of casualities to the US (the highest in europe besides germany) and then listed a couple of the little ones.

I left Germany out! This is a given. Don't be dumb. The discussion was Europen countries, not germany. I see no reason to base the analysis on the single outlier.

That's spin, twisting and cherry picking?

No, that's including all relevant data and haphazardly choosing from the european countries that didn't suffer many casualities at all. Since everything after the Big 4 is like 2k-5k anyway, how does it matter which ones I picked?


Do you still contend that the US suffered VERY FEW casualities compared to European countries? Do you also agree with that poster that it was, for the US, just a big exciting game?

Is that poster your significant other? Because you are being totally irrational here in your accusations against me.

 

[philippe]

I included the 3 countries with similar levels of casualities and then listed a couple of the little ones.

I left Germany out! This is a given. Don't be dumb. The discussion was Europen countries, not germany. I see no reason to base the analysis on the single outlier.

That's spin, twisting and cherry picking?

No, that's including all relevant data and haphazardly choosing from the european countries that didn't suffer many casualities at all. Since everything after the Big 4 is like 2k-5k anyway, how does it matter which ones I picked?


Do you still contend that the US suffered VERY FEW casualities compared to European countries?

if you would actually look at any of the statistics, you might have had a point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

here, have a look at the chart again, and tell me again "everything under the big 4 is 2-5k"

for the record, belgium lost 86 000 poeple.
that's 40 times more then your ridiculious statement.

other points already have been adressed. start reading, you need to catch up.

 

[Ecofarm]

Did the US suffer VERY FEW casualities compared to European nations?

No.

Did I prove it?

Yes.

I don't know what your problem is.

Besides Germany, Poland and Yugo, who suffered significantly more casualities? None. Who suffered significantly less casualities? Many.

It's really simple. I don't know how you are confused.

If you refuse to say that the US suffered VERY FEW casualities compared to European countries, then I guess you agree with me - that the poster was full of it.

 

[philippe]

Did the US suffer VERY FEW casualities compared to European nations?

No.

Did I prove it?

Yes.

I don't know what your problem is.

Besides Germany, Poland and Yugo, who suffered significantly more casualities? None. Who suffered significantly less casualities? Many.

It's really simple. I don't know how you are confused.

If you refuse to say that the US suffered VERY FEW casualities compared to European countries, then I guess you agree with me - that the poster was full of it.

yes, the USA lost very few causalties procentage-wise compared to most european countries. Hell, the entherlands ere with only 10 million poeple t the time and lost over 200 000 poeple.

Are you that in denial to not realise about scale?

I also noted you didn't answer the question.

If Iran or the USA lost 400 000 poeple, who would it affect more?

 

[Ecofarm]

It would affect the US more, because we value human life.

And screw your "percentage" crap. The US gave half a million lives and it wasn't even our turf.

 

[Sharwood]

No sodomy just waterboarding, thanks.

Sorry, I forgot that you're in the military, and we're no longer allowed to ask you that question.

 

[Ecofarm]

I'm not in the military anymore. You can make all the advances and questions at me you want, sweetie. What, are you hoping I'll go for a handjob?

 

[philippe]

sigh, you really can't draw an logic conclusion right?

So, ever had a look again at that chart you posted, let's count the countries that lost more casualties then the USA: 14
14
hah, if we start procentually (notice how ecofarm ignores this becuase it utterly obliterates his point) almost all the countries lost more poeple then the USA. let's not forget material damage...

(BTW, the SU, nazi germany,indonesia,japan,Poland,yoguslavia and China, they both lost enormously more casualties then the USA, but if you want to remain obtuse I can play your game, that are seven countries that had so many casualties the USA really is unscathed out of the war. you lost, kthxbye.)

It would affect the US more, because we value human life.

that's why there is capital punishment right?

 

[Sharwood]

I'm not in the military anymore. You can make all the advances and questions at me you want, sweetie. What, are you hoping I'll go for a handjob?

You know, I think that's the first time you've ever said anything I found amusing.

EDIT: Until you edited, and put the handjob thing there. It's just not as funny anymore.

 

[Ecofarm]

(BTW, the SU, nazi germany,indonesia,japan,Poland,yoguslavia and China, they both lost enormously more casualties then the USA, but if you want to remain obtuse I can play your game, that are seven countries that had so many casualties the USA really is unscathed out of the war. you lost, kthxbye.)

The subject was EUROPEAN COUNTRIES.

kthxbye

You know, I think that's the first time you've ever said anything I found amusing. -Shar

Damn, you must be REALLY dull. I'm freakin hilarious.

 

[philippe]

The subject was EUROPEAN COUNTRIES.

kthxbye



Damn, you must be REALLY dull. I'm freakin hilarious.

3 (nd you can argue 4) out of the 7 were european countries. damn americans really suck at geography. btw, i think you ran away from every other point, ergo, you fail to deliver a decent point.

and no, you aren't hilarious (your putie-obama was one of the most ******est things I ever seen, oooh hilarious ) you are just insane,obtuse and overly militaristic.

 

[Ecofarm]

3 (nd you can argue 4) out of the 7 were european countries. damn americans really suck at geography.

Let's go with 3. Three countries suffered more casualities. How many suffered less?

I case you didn't notice, I've already been through this in posts above. Nice to see you are catching up though.

btw, i think you ran away from every other point, ergo, you fail to deliver a decent point.

My point is very simple. The US did not suffer very few casualities compared to european countries.

If you don't mind, I'll stick to the subject (and I answered your stupid question about Iran)... for the love of god, take your meds.