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[We the People] Bug reporting

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - We The People' started by Nightinggale, Sep 24, 2018.

  1. Vorpal+5

    Vorpal+5 Venturing in Erebus

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    Would it be possible to stop spawning animals within the culture border? That's mostly a bother because it will cancel trade routes automation and they are very easily dispatched anyway. Animals are for the wilderness ... Having a bear plopping into my large plantation ... well unless he escaped from the local Barnum ... ;-)
     
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  2. Vorpal+5

    Vorpal+5 Venturing in Erebus

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    Also pretty please, stop having Indians give 488 furs ... Can the amount be limited to something reasonable?
     
  3. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon Warlord Supporter

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    We are nowadays much more "civilized" in form of infrastructure and people / sqkm - however even nowadays the occasional horde of boars invades gardens in a city from a nearby forest, or even kicks over trashcans for kitchen remains. So culture - even if at 100% should not be a fool-proof protection against wild animals, just make it more unlikely
     
  4. XSamatan

    XSamatan Chieftain

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    Why? A large native village should be able to sell plenty of goods. IMHO it is neatly balanced that you actually have to send a trade unit to the tribe to get the cargo.

    It is a minor disturbance, however I would agree with you that the player needs to know how these spawns happen and what one can do against them.
    Even the most basic military units defeat a strength 2 bear with ease, so it is no threat whatsoever. Furthermore the "Wild animal" player cannot enter rival territory, therefore the animals are teleported away in the next round anyway.

    Regards
    XSamatan
     
  5. Vorpal+5

    Vorpal+5 Venturing in Erebus

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    I mean give, not sell. Like "spontaneously offload 468 furs to a new colony ". That's silly. Imagine the Natives going to a settlement of fifty people with 5000 furs transported by 200 Natives ...

    And it's silly from a game balance standpoints, it should be related to Min(native stockpile, settlement size)
     
  6. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    About Selling / Trading:
    (By using Wagon Trains.)

    In my games they never sold amounts like that.
    It might be related to GameSpeed. (I play on "Normal".)

    But I was also regularly trading with their villages by Wagon Trains.
    (Thus they also had much less goods stored.)

    About Native pro-actively trading / donating:
    (By a Unit coming to your cities.)

    It is definitely also related to their storage / stockpile. The storage is the base for a random
    (Thus the stockpile is the max amount possible. The average they offer is half of it.)

    It is also related to their Attitude.
    They offer more if they really like you.

    In my games they never offered amounts that huge.
    But again, it might be related to GameSpeed and how often you are trading with Wagon Trains.

    -------

    It definitely is related to the stockpile. :thumbsup:
    The goods do not come out of nowhere.

    It defnitely is not a bug though.
    Please stop calling everything you might not like a bug.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
  7. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    I remember the code in question because I fixed a crashing bug in it back when it was RaR. What happens is that the natives offers something or gives it as a gift. When you get it, that amount will vanish from the native settlement. It's not created out of nothing. Likewise the money you pay in the trade end up at the natives. The only exception is if the settlement vanishes between making the offer and you accepting the offer. This has to do with avoiding the crashing bug, but really, how often will that happen that the natives makes the offer and after that the settlement vanishes before you get your turn? You can play hundreds of games and never experience this because it has to be so specific timing. However it did happen to one player once, hence why we learned we had to fix it.
     
  8. Vorpal+5

    Vorpal+5 Venturing in Erebus

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    Ok, so it is working as (badly) designed then, if you prefer this wording. Irrealistic, and not balanced from a game perspective. It just blow out the current storage of the fledging settlement, for starter, meaning you'll get wastage in all what is stored, so tools, muskets, everything until you manage to remove part of the gargantuan stockpile they donated.

    And then from a realism standpoint, I stand my point that there should be also a limit. Imagine seeing what amount to 100 IRL chariots worth of furs given by Natives to a colony size 1, sure.
    Alternatively you might question why in the world they wanted to accumulate so many hundreds of tons of furs (plus the natives usually only hunted what they needed).
    But the realism arguments are definitively not the most important here. That's more a question of game balance and game design.
     
  9. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon Warlord Supporter

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    Trade. The natives, once they learned of the europeans desire for furs and pelts and the goods the europeans offered, increased their own hunting. They even fought among each other over hunting grounds - not for food, but for furs to trade to the europans.
    "Beaver Wars" / Biberkriege (several of them) mostly between the Iroquois leage including the Mohawk and the Algonkin. The first trying to push back the latter to be able to be the only ones being able to sell to the french and dutch traders and blocking the others routes to the europeans to become a monopolist
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biberkriege

    Even small settlements like trading posts (not in the ingame sense but small colonies near the natives) should attract natives wanting to trade and to offer their own surplus.
    If you simply throw away what they have to offer if it´s your turn - or if you build more storage buildings to be able to store more is up to you.
     
  10. Mr. ZorG

    Mr. ZorG Chieftain

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    I found an error in one of the quests (most likely it appeared the first time for me). upload_2020-5-24_20-50-22.png
     
  11. 8BitArchitect

    8BitArchitect Chieftain

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    Have you considered that this is likely caused by whatever the game uses to calculate FoW not expecting obstructions on water tiles? I haven't done any testing myself, but that was my hypothesis since I never noticed this issue on land tiles.

    Additionally, this does have a gameplay effect. I've lost ships in the FoW that I can no longer select, but if I bring another ship into range of the tile they're on, I can see and select them again.
     
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  12. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    That's a really good point. Adding weather can alter visual range and if add/remove isn't done correctly, then this would be possible. I wonder if it's a vanilla bug as in it could happen if a forest grows or is cut down. Something to look into.
     
  13. Mr. ZorG

    Mr. ZorG Chieftain

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    By the way, yes, I also have never seen this effect on land tiles
     
  14. 8BitArchitect

    8BitArchitect Chieftain

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    Are there any decay/consumption mechanics for finished products beside the domestic market? I've got plenty of room in my main colony, but it seems like every turn I keep losing massive amounts of coffee despite heavy production (over 100/turn), imports, and a domestic demand of only 25. I saw it go from 375 down to 240 in one turn (I'm pretty sure I'm not being raided either.)

    Edit: I checked the logs and it looks like I'm selling over 3000 gold worth of goods per turn from the customs house in my main colony, in addition to over 1000 on the domestic market, but I still have over 1000 storage available before I hit the overflow point.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
  15. schueler

    schueler Chieftain

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    I sent my ship back to the New World and got this error message. Hope it has not been reported before.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    No, it has no been reported before. :dunno:

    Are you playing WTP Release 2.8?
    Did you try to modify anything by yourself?

    Currently I would have no idea how that bug could happen.
    (Also it would most likely happen way more often, if this would be a systematic programming error.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
  17. schueler

    schueler Chieftain

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    WTP Release 2.8 on a fresh install. All worked fine for hours, except for that error.
    I did not modify anything.
    Oh well. Mysterious errors. :)
    I surmised at first it might conflict with the other python interpreter I got installed, but
    as was pointed out before it should only use the bundled vintage version of python?
     
  18. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    I checked the code. It doesn't look like anybody touched that code in ages, meaning it's not a new issue. However I did change the game to force it to report python errors, meaning it's likely a bug, which we have had for ages, but it was just not reported.

    It doesn't look severe though. Apart from the error popup, the effect on the game looks like it could be as minor as not playing the departure sound. Hardly a game breaking error, but the real question is why the game claims the ship isn't in the list of ships in Europe. Hopefully this isn't a symptom of a deeper bug.
     
  19. schueler

    schueler Chieftain

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    Ya, it might be a bit too vague an indication, as I do not remember the pertinent savegame to reconstruct the error:
    I bought two galleons and sent them to the colonies. When pressing "next turn", the calculations seem to have gotten stuck in an infinite loop in the turn prior to their arrival. But once again, without the savegames this could have been anything really, as it happened late on a gigantic map. All I remember is that reverting back to a previous savegame and not buying any galleons did mend this.
    Not sure if I cba to dig the files up, sorry. There are hundreds of them. :( Could a messed up ship list even cause this?
     
  20. Morlark

    Morlark Warlord

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    I have done some looking.

    As you surmised, the bug occurs when weather features are applied in between a player's turns. When a weather feature is applied, a unit is still able to see tiles on the other side of the weather (screenshot 0001). When the unit then moves away, the game expects that visibility should have been being blocked by the weather, and therefore increases it to compensate (screenshot 0002), resulting in the tile becoming permanently visible.

    This does not occur when the unit moves near to a weather tile, as the visibility reduction is correctly applied (screenshot 0003).

    Forest chopping alone would not be sufficient to trigger this bug, as the bug relies on a prior visibility reduction having failed to be applied correctly. I couldn't test whether this bug can occur by having a forest grow while within sight of a unit, due to the rarity and unpredictability of forest growth.
     

    Attached Files:

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