whoward69
DLL Minion
'The Whoward/Gazebo Authoritarian Patch You Must Use Or Else' just didn't have the same ring to it.
My lawyers will be calling your lawyers
Welcome to the Community Patch!
- Thread starter Gazebo
- Start date
My lawyers will be calling your lawyers
My lawyers will be calling your lawyers
What!? Your name was first! Fine, I'll change it...
G
whoward69
DLL Minion
What!? Your name was first! Fine, I'll change it...
G
Oh yeah, that's lots better [extreme sarcasm smilie] - NOT!!!!
And in other news, have you ever noticed that "One man, one vote" describes both a democracy and a dictatorship!
ExpiredReign
Deity
Let me point a rather glaring difference between 'Communitas Expansion Project' and this 'Community Patch Project'.
Firstly one is Latin and the other is English.
Secondly, CEP is the third iteration of a mod devised by one man, Thalassicus, although it was built by him and several others. Over 40 according to the credits.
As such it was driven by his choices with some input from collaborators. Not a bad thing in itself. Most of the existing code is the remains of all that work of many, many years and a lot of the decisions of the future development was based on what has gone before.
The actual naming of 'Communitas' came very late in the mod's life, partly after I joined Thal at the beginning of the year, though that is more coincidental. So for the most part, Communitas was a one man mod with help from others.
This 'Community Patch' mod is a completely different beast as it is from the outset devised by more than one man and developed by a community (for the sake of this discussion I wont go further into what constitutes a community as it is a pointless exercise, IMO.)
This means ANYBODY that wants to help, can! The tasks involved in getting this mod to work are not solely of a coding nature. Great at graphics? Fantastic, start designing stuff. Do you write documentation? That will be needed too. Can't do anything but you have a lot of ideas? Let's hear them.
Please, can we drop the discussion over the name? It is what it is.
Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk
Firstly one is Latin and the other is English.
Secondly, CEP is the third iteration of a mod devised by one man, Thalassicus, although it was built by him and several others. Over 40 according to the credits.
As such it was driven by his choices with some input from collaborators. Not a bad thing in itself. Most of the existing code is the remains of all that work of many, many years and a lot of the decisions of the future development was based on what has gone before.
The actual naming of 'Communitas' came very late in the mod's life, partly after I joined Thal at the beginning of the year, though that is more coincidental. So for the most part, Communitas was a one man mod with help from others.
This 'Community Patch' mod is a completely different beast as it is from the outset devised by more than one man and developed by a community (for the sake of this discussion I wont go further into what constitutes a community as it is a pointless exercise, IMO.)
This means ANYBODY that wants to help, can! The tasks involved in getting this mod to work are not solely of a coding nature. Great at graphics? Fantastic, start designing stuff. Do you write documentation? That will be needed too. Can't do anything but you have a lot of ideas? Let's hear them.
Please, can we drop the discussion over the name? It is what it is.
Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk
Wodhann
South American Norse God
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2014
- Messages
- 1,507
I will, but we're not at that point yet
JFD
Kathigitarkh
This is the kind of response that curtails community discussion; if Gazebo wants to exercise his authority and request the matter be dropped, then I will gladly oblige him, but otherwise I reserve the right to take issue with this attitude toward the name. Why don't I just call my Civilisation thread the "Community Civilisation Thread?" if my point is not clear enough.
ExpiredReign
Deity
I honestly don't understand where you're coming from. On the one hand you want this mod to be communal and on the other you expect G to be the only one to steer discussion.
I simply suggest dropping this as it serves nothing constructive.
Really just what is the point?
Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk
I simply suggest dropping this as it serves nothing constructive.
Really just what is the point?
Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk
JFD
Kathigitarkh
I'm taking the objective approach, but acknowledge that my political affiliations will allow me to submit to Gazebo's final word. But as you are not the authority on the matter, and seem unwilling to view the matter with importance, then it indeed serves no purpose. Evidently, the word "community," in this case, is an embellishment, not a description, which comes with it the free advertisement but not the responsibility. It was my mistake the presume anything otherwise.
ExpiredReign
Deity
/sigh/
Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk
Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk
JFD
Kathigitarkh
I am equally frustrated, so no need to be condescending. Until I know otherwise, my opinion is just as valid as yours on the matter.
Nutty
Deity
@JFD:
I understand the concern, but I still don't think you get it.
I understand the concern, but I still don't think you get it.
The patch is largely a modder's toolkit, with "community" referring to an attempt to make this a common DLL for most mods that need DLL edits (excepting, e.g., total conversions or edge cases; but even those could provide a DLL based on the community patch to maintain compatibility). Your concerns about the default behavior of the patch seem misplaced, since it will apparently be light-touch, only fixing obvious bugs and applying performance enhancements where possible.
But this is where the rubber meets the road for the meaning of the word "community" to which you've been referring [i.e., a community process].
Frankly, we have yet to see how well this project aligns with the ideals inherent in the name, but there is certainly a balance to be struck. I'm willing to assume that Gazebo and other designers will do so in good faith (else they risk our justified wrath).
JFD
Kathigitarkh
Perhaps you could say that I am skeptical that the patch will stick to its manifesto Also, I was under the impression that the Balance Patch would be named the "Community Balance Patch," wherein my concerns rest. I have no qualms with the DLL enhancements.
Also, "where the rubber meets the road"? I had to look that one up
Just to be clear, though: I'm not advocating a community process, merely that that it was a community patch implies.
Also, I was under the impression that the Balance Patch would be named the "Community Balance Patch," wherein my concerns rest. I have no qualms with the DLL enhancements. Also, "where the rubber meets the road"? I had to look that one up
Just to be clear, though: I'm not advocating a community process, merely that that it was a community patch implies.
Wodhann
South American Norse God
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2014
- Messages
- 1,507
I agree with nutty; the largest part of the "community" process is on the balance patch.
When it comes down to the mod toolkit part of the patch, it's only a matter if you can code DLL - if you can, then you join forces with gazebo and whoward, if you can't, then you probably have to ask them if they can do this and that and hope they can. They can't become robotic hands of the community, they do what they can and want.
In this regard, maybe the "community patch" may be indeed a misnomer when it comes to the toolkit. But does it matter? I believe what they mean by "community" may be just in the end "supported and sponsored by the civfanatics community".
Now the balance patch is another beast and we indeed are looking for a community mental effort. At the very least.
When it comes down to the mod toolkit part of the patch, it's only a matter if you can code DLL - if you can, then you join forces with gazebo and whoward, if you can't, then you probably have to ask them if they can do this and that and hope they can. They can't become robotic hands of the community, they do what they can and want.
In this regard, maybe the "community patch" may be indeed a misnomer when it comes to the toolkit. But does it matter? I believe what they mean by "community" may be just in the end "supported and sponsored by the civfanatics community".
Now the balance patch is another beast and we indeed are looking for a community mental effort. At the very least.
JFD
Kathigitarkh
What has been my pointed issue with the name.
But don't mistake me for being interested in the matter anymore.
Viregel
, The Rt. Hon.
To me, "Community" is defined here as "a bunch of people having an input". Given I'm currently behind a "Community Expansion Pack", I thought I might as well try to settle the argument. I try not to control everything that goes on - agreed, every group needs a leader, but it still defeats the point of community slightly. I'd say as long as people are actually getting their voices heard and their ideas implemented if the community want it, then it is a community expansion. I'm saying this as someone who hasn't really been following everything that's been going on, but I thought I might as well share my views as a third party, should it help at all. Probably not, but I can try.
(I know JFD's no longer interested in the matter - but that's beside the point.
)
(I know JFD's no longer interested in the matter - but that's beside the point.
)
JFD
Kathigitarkh
The reason that I'm no longer interested in the topic is because I'm being mistaken for caring about whether this project is a community effort or not. I have no vested interest in how much of the community participate in this project, merely concerned with it being called a community project as if the community endorsed it - Gazebo can go on a tyrannical rampage of balance if he so chooses and I would not flinch, but to keep calling it a community patch then would elicit my concern.
Wherein belies the confusion. That is not what something entitled "community" implies. One is free to define community as limited to those who participate, but those who venture upon CivFanatics may assume or define community as having a greater meaning; i.e. one inclusive of all CivFanatics or at least of all the (CiV) modding community at CivFanatics.
Which comes from a failure to distinguish the implications of the word community and the word communal.
Call me pedantic, but words have responsibility, especially when vested with the duty of title.
But, I have made my point as clear as I can, so I say meh to the issue at hand. I merely do not want it presumed that I endorse any balances to come, just because I am a part of this community <-- See what I did there?
Wherein belies the confusion. That is not what something entitled "community" implies. One is free to define community as limited to those who participate, but those who venture upon CivFanatics may assume or define community as having a greater meaning; i.e. one inclusive of all CivFanatics or at least of all the (CiV) modding community at CivFanatics.
Which comes from a failure to distinguish the implications of the word community and the word communal.
Call me pedantic, but words have responsibility, especially when vested with the duty of title.
But, I have made my point as clear as I can, so I say meh to the issue at hand. I merely do not want it presumed that I endorse any balances to come, just because I am a part of this community <-- See what I did there?
ExpiredReign
Deity
@skodkim
CEP is going into a time capsule mode (ie. Leave it for someone else to pickup) and all future efforts at improving that mod will be shifted here.
I will shortly release the last CEP version and leave it as is to focus my attention here.
In short, all that CEP did will/can be done with this.
Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk
CEP is going into a time capsule mode (ie. Leave it for someone else to pickup) and all future efforts at improving that mod will be shifted here.
I will shortly release the last CEP version and leave it as is to focus my attention here.
In short, all that CEP did will/can be done with this.
Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk
Sorry, maybe I should have been more clear. I am aware that this mod will incorporate many of CEP's features given time (and it really looks exciting!) but is it possible to use it alongside CEP for now so you get features from both mods?
\Skodkim
\Skodkim
ExpiredReign
Deity
Ah, well, since it's only in the beta stage just at the moment, that answer would be the same as for the combined DLL you are already familiar with.
As with any of the changes made to the DLL there needs to be an accompanying mod to enable those changes. G has only put in place a few test mods just now.
Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk
As with any of the changes made to the DLL there needs to be an accompanying mod to enable those changes. G has only put in place a few test mods just now.
Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk
