WH Mod Expansion Discussion

[Tyrion]

Bloody Games workshop... im lucky this mod exists it costs $50 Australian for one regiment down here now... its insane $30 was expensive but now $50... they must be joking...

Ok then we work on Civ 3. I hope that if Civ 4 is good and is missing some sort of fantasy usage we dont cheat them of this brilliant mod. Work or not i think we should when the time comes bring this mod to Civ 4. Any Civ is not the same without this mod. But untill then you are right we should work on this one as best we can.

Im not so sure on that Ogre Kingdoms civ. They sound a bit well strange to be honest. Still if it works it works.

 

[drzoidberg]

Hey guys, I've been living under a rock. I just went into a gamesstore for old times sake today and I was living with the impression that computers had killed the scene. I was sure that tabletop games are played by maybe a couple of thousand young kids and by nerds with glass-bottom glasses. I was wrong in a big way. It's still huge! I thought this MOD was made for sentimental old people like myself. I guess not.

There's so much new stuff. I was amazed. But the new races Ogres, Tau, Necrons and releasing already converted chaos machines, (the conversions was half the fun of having a chaos army) got me thinking. Do we go with the original WH world before all this crap showed up, (as ED's done in the original WH MOD) do we work in all the new stuff, do we only go with stuff in WH roleplay, (outsourced and different today) OR do we just pick anything form the whole universe that picks our fancy?

To be honest all the new WH stuff lacks all the magic. I checked out the army lists. All stats are made in such a way that a regiment can be squezed down into a standard size regiment box. All new units have only got stuff that have easily replacable parts for casting in plastic. That takes the magic out of it for me at least. I vote for the WH roleplay universe, (it makes it easier). It's what my childhood memories say to me. Yes, I know I'm being a sop.

 

[Mr. Do]

I don't think this is the place to discuss this, but what the heck do you mean by, "All stats are made in such a way that a regiment can be squezed down into a standard size regiment box"? The fact that there's lots of plastics can only be a good thing, as that means even more customisability than before (so you don't have entire regiments made up of only the same three models repeated over and over), and as someone who played both 10 years ago and now (with a gap of about 8 years between), I vastly prefer how it is now. Just not so much the stupid price increases.

"Do we go with the original WH world before all this crap showed up, (as ED's done in the original WH MOD) do we work in all the new stuff, do we only go with stuff in WH roleplay, (outsourced and different today) OR do we just pick anything form the whole universe that picks our fancy?"

It's always been absolutely clear with what we "go for": that which is available, accurate to the WH mythos, and that which works gameplay-wise. For example we don't need to spend ages thinking about how an ogre civ could be put into the game, since there aren't the units for it. The WH world is basically the same as it is today as it was 10 years ago, just more streamlined.

 

[LMR]

i've put in an ogre civ in my mod, using aaglo's ogres, ED's ogre, my ogre worker and several giants (hill, lowland, stone-throwing?) and others like the earth and stone elementals. they don't really look like warhammer ogres, but they do the job

 

[mrtn]

While that may work for you (and might even work for me if I cared about the ogres ), it would never work for embryodead. The time he spent working on getting the details right was insane.
I know that he added the ogres as mercenaries, so that's how they should be treated in any follow-up-mod.
Talking about adding more civs (apart from the chaos dwarfs), or about civ 4 only clutters the thread IMNSHO.

 

[LMR]

fair enough, but back then the ogres weren't a civ were they ? but i respect all the work that ED and co have put in, and if that's what he wanted, that's fine

btw, what's IMNSHO?

 

[aaglo]

IMNSHO = In my not-so-honest opinion.

BTW, I made a request for Kinboat about a thing related to the chaos dwarfs (something I'm not "equipped" to construct myself ), and he agreed to work with it after his current projects - atleast he thought it would be possible. I'm keeping up the high hopes for this

You know what I'm talking about - right?

 

[Tyrion]

Ooh for those Aussies around. This months edition of White Dwarf has a very nice world map in it. Though most of you fanatics probably already have it i thought i would point it out. Im under the impression that because it was for the Lustria campaign and that i think is a sole Australia thing it may be unavailable in other countries but to anyone who wants to make an accurate world map scenario you need this map.

Do we really have to fight? If this is already devolving into a fight i doubt we can pull off an expansion. To many chefs in the Kitchen maybe?

 

[Yoda Power]

IMNSHO = In my not-so-honest opinion.

I'm pretty sure mrtn meant it honest. It means In my not so humble opinion.

 

[drzoidberg]

Do we really have to fight? If this is already devolving into a fight i doubt we can pull off an expansion. To many chefs in the Kitchen maybe?

Wasn't Mr Do elected WH MOD-dictator? Which in my opinion is only for the best. If that is the case fighting is just good and Mr Do has the last word. I see it more as one chef and a large group of opinionated little pricks, myself included.

Where would Civilization be today without our wars.

 

[Mr. Do]

Lol, as long as we're talking about the mod, then it's all good!

Would anyone with graphical ability care to make resources for Ogres (and perhaps Beastmen)?

 

[aaglo]

ME!

Did you also consider (with the ogres), that the leadbelcher and Irongut might come useful in the later stages of the game ?

BTW, You mentioned about replacing the Reiksguard unit graphic. I actually like very much the currently used Swiss guard (from Conquests) - it looks a bit like Kinboat's Landsknecht (sp?), the new Greatsword unit graphic...

 

[drzoidberg]

Would anyone with graphical ability care to make resources for Ogres (and perhaps Beastmen)?

How about being a bit creative and making an Ogre/Beastman civ and calling it something like "the wild tribes" or "border tribes", (as in on the Chaos wastes border). Niether of them seem to have much of an organized "empire" anyway and besides both civs are pretty recent brainchilds of GW so I think anything goes at this time. This solution would make it easier to find all the units for a complete civ.

 

[mrtn]

...BTW, You mentioned about replacing the Reiksguard unit graphic. I actually like very much the currently used Swiss guard (from Conquests) - it looks a bit like Kinboat's Landsknecht (sp?), the new Greatsword unit graphic...

Both embryodead and me think that they complement each other perfectly. We discussed it back in January or something...
I also have a possible splash for Mount Arachnos that fits better than the current one, IMO, I modded Kinboats preview for the spiders tech icon.

 

[aaglo]

Here what mrtn said

Oh, I don't know about some fabricated "wild tribes"-civ. It doesn't seem very warhammerish - especially if both beastmen & ogres are included...

About those beastmen & ogre resources: I have a few ideas for them.
1. The ogres -resource could be a small ogre village (see http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/ogrekingdoms/terrain/hut/default.htm , or White Dwarf #301 battle report ogres vs. empire). The Beastmen -resource could be a herdstone (see http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/beastsofchaos/terrain/herdstone/2.htm ).

2. The resources could be like in Drift's Master of myrror -mod: tiny static units.

I think I like the idea #1 more...

 

[Mr. Do]

Okay, the current Swiss Pikeman unit stays in, although it looks nothing like either the Reiksgard or Empire Halberdiers

The Beastman herdstone as a resource sounds good, I think I'd prefer something like the Great Maw (linked to on the page you gave, aaglo) for the Ogres though. A hut looks boring on a map, but a sacrificial pit would look quite neat, I think!

Dr. Z, mrtn's statement "Talking about adding more civs (apart from the chaos dwarfs), or about civ 4 only clutters the thread IMNSHO." is spot-on. If you were suggesting putting the ogres and beastmen in as one civ that's actually against all three tenets upon which I'm basing the add-on (Accuracy (Ogres are NOT Chaos), Gameplay and keeping to ED's vision), so it will not happen like that.

Also mrtn I'm modding from version 2.02, so things like "Mount Arachnos" and "Treasure House" won't be in it. Unless others who tested 2.03 think it really is worth going from there... (in which case someone will have to zip all the files together for me, cos if I try running the 2.03 exe patch then it'll delete most of my own additions!)

 

[Frostyboy]

I fancy more the idea of using ogres and beastmen as barbarians. Beastmen are chaotic, ogres are more neutral and they don't fit well together.
For this patch I also think we should focus on the Chaos dwarves, but later we should try to fill in max civs (5 more?) I agree with Dr. Zoidberg on using some old material as well. I have the old armylist at home with heaps of good ideas. Hobgoblins could perhaps be separated under Hobgoblah Khan at a later patch since there seems to be som many CD units. Has the Lammasu been made yet by the way?

But yes, we should focus on the integration of those units already made for the next patch here.

 

[Mr. Do]

Well I think I gotta start making some solid decisions:
Skaven as barbarians
Beastmen as "minor tribe" resources allowing their contruction by Chaos
Ogres as "minor tribe" resources, DoW available to all (except Brets). I think I'll add a fourth-era tech simply called "Ogre Kingdoms" that allows the Bulls to be upgraded to Ironguts and Leadbelchers (if you have iron/ saltpeter). If anyone wants to make suitable tech graphics for that it will be appreciated

 

[aaglo]

Hi!
Here are a few resources: Herdstone and Maw.
In the zip there are:
- resources.pcx
- resources_shadows.pcx
- MawResource.pcx
- MawResourceSmall.pcx
- HerdstoneResource.pcx
- HerdstoneResourceSmall.pcx

What do you think? Attached also a preview of the civilopedias of these resources.

 

[CyberChrist]

Skaven as barbarians

Bah, someone make some more units so we can get a full Skaven race


Since you are considering the 'minor race' concept and making them exclusive to only some races, shouldn't the halflings also be expanded to a 'minor race' (using Aaglo's excellent Hobbit chars) and then only be available to certain nations - perhaps OldWorld only?

I think there are currently halfling units to support approximate versions of Peasant, Spearman, Swordman, Archer, Pikeman and Crossbow. They could have identical ATK/DEF stats to their appropriate counterparts, but with "All Terrain as Roads" flag and would cost 10-20 shields more to produce. If that seems too strong defensive halfling units could have ATK-1 and offensive units DEF-1 as well (compared to regular unit stats).

All nations could still have access to the current Halfling in mod (perhaps rename it to Halfling Adventurer or something?).