What are your thoughts on BitCoin?

[Hygro]

We’re saying it is technology that creates a real life ability to effect different consequences and therefore that ability and consequence has intrinsic value.

 

[El_Machinae]

I think that people kind of waffle when it comes the intrinsic value of a dollar bill. Very worst case, it's kindling for a campfire. On that front, I'd say it's more valuable than a bitcoin. It has a market value, people will trade a dollar bill for a candy bar (so does bitcoin, which is much more obviously a bubble), but I can see how we call this somewhat illusionary. But then it has a protected value. Dollars are valuable because there are contracts written in dollars, so they're the cheapest thing you can use to protect your collateral. When paying down a debt backed by collateral, a dollar bill has a real worth. It's what you give to the bank instead of your truck. Governments backstop that value with protecting contracts and collecting taxes. As soon as a government stops doing so, then we're back to dollar bills being kindling. Of these three, we cannot burn bitcoin and we cannot use it to pay taxes (as long as governments stay smart about such things)

If a company has an income stream, then we say how a company has a market value (the actual share price). I think someone was saying that the income stream of the shares was a more 'real' value (but then that depends on the 'dollars' it brings in as having real value themselves). After that, the share represents property ownership on the underlying assets of the company. To tap that value, you still need a government protecting that contract. So what's the 'intrinsic' value of a share? You can use the certificate as kindling. You have a claim on the assets. You have a claim to the income stream. And the share itself has a market value. If 'intrinsic value' of a share is a claim on its income stream (plus voting rights), then a bitcoin has a little bit of this (thematically) if contracts are written using bitcoin. It comes and goes.

 

[Modder_Mode]

Material goods have utility. You can't eliminate the idea that they have value when they have utility for people. Goods don't have value, people value them, as they serve subjective wants. Some people can live happily with great scarcity, but others cannot, as they have different values.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Here is a heartwarming story for the speculators.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/h...the-dream-2019-11-10?mod=MW_story_top_stories

It all started when Conway, who was making about $150,000 a year, asked his wife if he could invest the family’s $100,000 in savings, which was earmarked for their three children’s college education, in a risky crypto play.

A solid play. Continue...

“As a disenfranchised suit-and-tie, I was enraptured by the possibility of a decentralized future,” he wrote. “As a greedy speculative investor, it gave me a rush.” He became so smitten with the potential, that he embarked on a wild ride — he used that $100,000 to buy 6,933 ETH at an average price of $14.

Soon thereafter, he was served a heaping spoonful of crypto volatility and watched his initial investment drop below $40,000. “In the midst of a particularly volatile week, I found myself in the emergency room, struggling to breathe,” he explained. “The doctor diagnosed me with a panic event.”

Wow, bad luck there.
I know from personal experience from a panic attack brought upon by loud bagpiping that when the body dumps a liter of adrenalin into your bloodstream without your knowledge and your heartrate hits 180 sitting down for no reason, it is pretty scary.

What happened next?

Undeterred, Conway doubled down by tapping into his home equity line. He borrowed another $200,000 and ended up with a total of 26,750 ETH at an average cost of $11.21 each. This had all the makings of serious disaster, but, no, the investing gods had other plans.

“Something miraculous happened: It kept going up… and up… and up. Between February and March of 2017, ETH shot from $15 to $50 per coin. By April, it was at $70; by May, $230,”

He sold at the $1000 peak before the price cratered.
Etherium is at $200 today.

Well played sir, with the college fund and the house and the credit line.

 

[Narz]

Cryptocurrencies have no use value whatsoever

For you maybe. Depends on your industry. Some people really value privacy

 

[innonimatu]

For you maybe. Depends on your industry. Some people really value privacy

"Cryptocurrencies" are the least private form of currency possible. You are required to have your every transaction recorded and published.

 

[Birdjaguar]

"Cryptocurrencies" are the least private form of currency possible. You are required to have your every transaction recorded and published.

But I think you can run them through multiple companies and effectively hide you you are.

 

[innonimatu]

Honeypots...

 

[Narz]

"Cryptocurrencies" are the least private form of currency possible. You are required to have your every transaction recorded and published.

That's no problem, just use a bitcoin scrambler (but be careful there are lots of fake ones that just steal your $)

 

[innonimatu]

Have you ever wondered who supplies those handy services of bitcoin scrambling? You really think that records are not kept?

 

[Farm Boy]

"Cryptocurrencies" are the least private form of currency possible. You are required to have your every transaction recorded and published.

Really just cash and barter left and cash is increasingly slandered. The upstanding siphons are hella strong.

 

[Narz]

Have you ever wondered who supplies those handy services of bitcoin scrambling? You really think that records are not kept?

I'm sure if push came to shove & the government requested those records they could get them... maybe (depending on what company in what country providing the scrambling) but how big-time would you have to be for that to be worth anyone's time?

The could perhaps prove you put the funds from your coinbase (not sure coinbase's privacy policy) or wherever into the tumbler but that in itself is not a crime.

 

[Narz]

Really just cash and barter left and cash is increasingly slandered.

Yeah cuz studies show people are way more thrifty when they use cash instead of credit card. And the credit card companies are incredibly powerful. So they want people to feel like some kind of old timey bumpkin and/or criminal if you use cash.

The whole credit card dominance & people getting obsessed with "rewards" and their credit score is a big scam to sucker everyone into debt.

 

[Farm Boy]

I'm totally behind the concept of businesses being forced to accept cash payments by law.

 

[Hygro]

I spend cash way faster than card because cash is bonus money in my psyche.

 

[Lexicus]

I spend cash way faster than card because cash is bonus money in my psyche.

I only use cash for 1 thing and you already know what it is

 

[Samson]

I only use cash for 1 thing and you already know what it is

I can kind of guess what it is, and moving towards a cashless economy will make that harder in the future, along with other "grey" economy things, including revolution. To me this indicates we should try to keep using cash .

 

[Samson]

So China likes bitcoin now?

A state-run newspaper in China has published a front-page story hailing bitcoin as the first successful application of blockchain technology.
The praise marks a significant shift in Beijing's stance towards the cryptocurrency and comes as the country prepares to launch its own digital currency.
Monday's edition of Xinhua went into detail about how bitcoin and its underlying blockchain technology works, describing it as "one of the hottest topics in recent years".
The Xinhua article was not wholly positive about bitcoin, claiming that the semi-anonymous nature of the cryptocurrency meant it was used for illicit activities like money laundering.
"People can freely transfer money through bitcoin without having to verify various identity information... However, this feature also makes bitcoin widely used in illegal transactions," the article states.
"Currently, the most important use of bitcoin payments are black market transactions and 'dark web' transactions."​

 

[Lexicus]

I can kind of guess what it is, and moving towards a cashless economy will make that harder in the future, along with other "grey" economy things, including revolution. To me this indicates we should try to keep using cash .

It's already technically legal where I live. *shrugs* I'm not too worried about it honestly.

 

[Samson]

It's already technically legal where I live. *shrugs* I'm not too worried about it honestly.

I would have thought you would be more worried about how to have a revolution without a physical currency TBH.