What are your thoughts on BitCoin?

[Lexicus]

Understanding without achievement... what's the point?

"The unexamined life is not worth living for a human being."

 

[Moriarte]

I'm sure that's true, but that's a very different argument from the argument that business success is its own evidence that someone understands economics.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prediction#Prediction_in_science

And yet, most “economic predictions” I read were akin to fortune telling. Rarely someone has understanding or skill to absorb last few thousand years of history, including economic/politic history and then present forward-looking statements based on that foundation and the dynamics of recent change. Usually, these “predictions” are much simpler, much like their authors. There are exceptions.

By the way, this problem gets escalated in crypto corner - the level of presentation and it’s underlying understanding is just appalling, really.. That is symptomatic to a bigger issue though.

 

[El_Machinae]

If that is true, I would appreciate feedback on my post regarding the environmental damage. Honestly, a conversation about whether certain billionaires understand economics is just tiresome.

 

[Narz]

what a surreal post. really goes to show you how people are wired completely differently. kafka would have still been one of the greatest writers on the face of the earth if max brod never published his works. van gogh is still an incredibly gifted painter, even though he never got the recognition he deserved in his lifetime. obscurity is nothing inherently negative. what's the point in achieving? do you want to boast, flaunt? for me, the point in achieving is not the end goal, but rather the strive in itself, the path that gets me there. understanding for the sake of understanding is something I can understand. achieving for the sake of achieving is.. pityful, at least in my opinion.

By achieving I don't mean the approval of others I mean picking up the pen or paintbrush in the first place. If van gogh only read books about painting or understood the thories about art from his time he wouldn't be a great painter, he'd just be someone who knew something.

Why learn about money but to make money? Why study to be a dentist if you won't help anyone with their cavity? Knowledge alone is impotent without application, nothing wrong with learning trivia as a hobby I suppose but if you don't utilize it I don't see any point

 

[Narz]

"The unexamined life is not worth living for a human being."

You examine so you can change.

The realization that x behavior pattern comes from my relationship with my mother is great... kinda, if I use that information to make changes. Otherwise it's useless, maybe even damaging (gives me an excuse or a goto explination for a reaction I have rather than digging deeper)

Ideas without practical applications are like masturbation, may be fun but no one else is benefiting (unless you have a webcam... I digress)

 

[Lexicus]

You examine so you can change.

I examine so I can make disparaging comments about people on the internet

 

[Narz]

I examine so I can make disparaging comments about people on the internet

I mean whatever floats your boat but if s*** talking was a effective method to harm the powerful we wouldn't have the president we do, probably more maligned in a couple years than anyone else in history combined

Moderator Action: Please do not evade the autocensor. --LM
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Lexicus]

I was only joking (sort of). Disparaging people on the internet is a way for me to remain sane, not an effective resistance strategy.

 

[Hygro]

I mean whatever floats your boat but if s*** talking was a effective method to harm the powerful we wouldn't have the president we do, probably more maligned in a couple years than anyone else in history combined

Before this election, Clinton was more powerful than Trump, and Trump s* talked his way to victory

Moderator Action: Again, please do not evade the autocensor. Also, do not quote text which has obviously been written to avoid the autocensor. --LM
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Narz]

Before this election, Clinton was more powerful than Trump, and Trump s* talked his way to victory

Hard to say who was more powerful.

 

[Lexicus]

I think Trump was more powerful but it's too dependent on framing to argue it properly

 

[Moriarte]

Keep in mind, all of the really great things about bitcoin don't require a high value. The Venezuelan buying toilet paper doesn't care if he's transferring 0.01 bitcoins or a thousand of them. The transaction will be conducted at what they perceive to be the very best real price. But the social cost of the bitcoin is utterly dependent on its actual value. There will still be people mining like stink if Bitcoin were worth $0.10. But only if their electricity + amortization (+ subsidy) makes it worth it.

High value is normally a symptom of explosion in participation. The avenues for value transfer are only That thick and, when considerable pressure is being administered, market reacts with a spike in value. At some point, when market for a particular good is saturated with available public, plateau of productivity is reached. Among other things, bitcoin is a vehicle for temporary value storage, so, inevitably, when intermittent equilibrium is reached, a reverse process is initiated, as value gets minted on the way down through margin trading.

Whether environmental impact can and should be controlled and in what manner is a separate issue, which depends on technicalities, such as degrees of centralization and the schematics of frameworks in question. Without the need to serve particular jurisdiction, without the need to build skyscrapers and hire armies of accountants and lawyers, without the need to steal from it’s customers, advanced cryptocurrency of the future will cost a fraction of running resources us dollar requires. Shall I mention the 6th fleet as well? Because if I don’t I risk drawing incomplete picture.

Ethereum, if I may, isn’t a mere currency. It is the beating heart of the ecosystem of hundreds of small projects (cryptocurrencies), which comprise a new, ideally - trustless & seamless method of storing and transferring digitalised value. I suspect the only forces deciding which value it requires will be tornadoes and tsunamis of the free market economy.

 

[Mise]

I was only joking (sort of). Disparaging people on the internet is a way for me to remain sane, not an effective resistance strategy.

At some point I want to unpack this because I am often tempted -- and often succumb -- to insulting people online, and use that same excuse. It is clearly not an effective strategy for keeping sane either. Anyway this thread is about bitcoin, or billionaires, or something.

 

[El_Machinae]

Ethereum, if I may, isn’t a mere currency. It is the beating heart of the ecosystem of hundreds of small projects (cryptocurrencies), which comprise a new, ideally - trustless & seamless method of storing and transferring digitalised value. I suspect the only forces deciding which value it requires will be tornadoes and tsunamis of the free market economy.

If this is true, shouldn't you be running defense on ethereum instead of bitcoin? I don't really pay attention to the other cryptocurrencies, since bitcoin dominates the market and I dislike it so. It would be terrible if it was the one that became the non-used store of value (compare it so, say, gold), the gold standard of crypto and so was held in people's portfolios not because it was useful, but because it was valuable. In an ideal situation, if a crypto that was fundamentally superior to bitcoin came online, it should drive the value of bitcoin to zero (except as a curiosity). Poppies never went to zero, even though every found a vastly superior store of value.

Now, as you know I don't really see use for bitcoin in microtransactions. It's not like I will ever use it, or want to live in a world where I use it. We lose too much national sovereignty, and I don't see an upside there. I absolutely see a social use for bitcoin, but it works whether it's valued at a buck or a million.

 

[Lexicus]

It is clearly not an effective strategy for keeping sane either.

Speak for yourself. Everyone's different.

 

[Cheetah]

You all heard about this second generation bitcoin?

I suggest everyone run and invest in Bitcoiin!

 

[Moriarte]

If this is true, shouldn't you be running defense on ethereum instead of bitcoin? I don't really pay attention to the other cryptocurrencies, since bitcoin dominates the market and I dislike it so. It would be terrible if it was the one that became the non-used store of value (compare it so, say, gold), the gold standard of crypto and so was held in people's portfolios not because it was useful, but because it was valuable. In an ideal situation, if a crypto that was fundamentally superior to bitcoin came online, it should drive the value of bitcoin to zero (except as a curiosity). Poppies never went to zero, even though every found a vastly superior store of value.

Now, as you know I don't really see use for bitcoin in microtransactions. It's not like I will ever use it, or want to live in a world where I use it. We lose too much national sovereignty, and I don't see an upside there. I absolutely see a social use for bitcoin, but it works whether it's valued at a buck or a million.

Instead of running defence for bitcoin i'm doing offence of ethereum. But yeah, you got the gist right. Bitcoin is old news for months now. Even before it's meteoric rise it was apparent, that due to foundational issues it is destined to remain an ugly child in an otherwise noble family. But, since many fat cats are heavily invested and there is close to zero chance of cashing out right now, since infrastructure is heavily skewed towards trading through bitcoin due to development dynamics, since most people just aren't interested to do research beyond finding a bitcoin shop -- the bitcoin will remain on olympus for quite a while, i suppose.

However bitcoin's fate isn't central to crypto's future, as there are dozens healthy alternatives already, suitable for both microtransactions and store of value. So i don't see why B shouldn't succumb to that pressure eventually.

 

[El_Machinae]

Then, the underlying analysis, "dump bitcoin" is sound reasoning.

 

[Crime Doesn't Pay]

I mistrust Bitcoin as it is new. I don't say it is invalid or a bad investment, but it is just too new for me to trust it. Does this make sense?

 

[Kozmos]

So more on topic, I once again liquidated most of my positions due to consultations with my friend. He sees another dip to 6k at which point he thinks it'll rise again.