What best describes your beliefs in religion, God, and the afterlife?

[GamezRule]

Very deep video.

 

[stormerne]

Excellent video kiwitt. Thanks for that.

It is for the precise reasons demonstrated in the video that I have no interest in trying convince anyone else through debate or explanation that gods exist. My knowing they exist is entirely experience-based, and therefore singularly personal and non-transmissible, and discussion only an invitation to skepticism*. And it is because my knowing that gods exist is entirely based on my experience, that neither faith-based pseudo-debate nor atheist real debate has any effect my position.

* I probably meant cynicism

 

[GhostWriter16]

I would say the line can be drawn roughly where it can be drawn for freedom of speech. Shout 'fire' in a crowded theatre and you've gone too far. Set a theatre on fire because God told you to, and you've definitely gone too far. Actions that are actually harmful to others should not be allowable using religion as an excuse.

Yes I agree, but here's a better question: Where do you draw the line with hate speech? Is condemning Homosexuality hate speech? Is calling it an abomination hate speech? Is suggesting they be legally prosecuted hate speech? Is calling for their execution hate speech?

While I would not support any form of prosecution, I would say denying them the right to say those things is an infringment on freedom of religion.

That's just giving an example, it could probably be applied to other contentious areas as well.

Unfortunately for me (I think), my heart doesn't have ears, so I haven't had the same experience. I don't believe anyone can be truly certain, either. I mean, I don't doubt that you believe you are certain, but I do not think you or anybody actually can be rightfully certain.

Neither does mine. Though I find it difficult to explain, I have "Heard" God speaking to me in my heart.

Is there something peculiar about the US that makes macroevolution any less true over there?

No, I'm just saying it has a lot more to do with religion and is a lot more debatable over here.

 

[Yared]

You without a body, but you retain your ability to think. You are also invisible for the most part. You can influence the world in varying amounts.

How does that work? What's the science behind that?

If one's ability to think is separate from the body, how come drugs work? How do you explain lobotomy? How come people sometimes suffer from amnesia when they hit their heads?

Perhaps the soul generates an independent energy we cannot measure.

If we can not measure it then how do you know there's any such thing?

Assuming they burn off any energy they generate, they must attain it from elsewhere, possibly finding ways to absorb energy from other souls, or maybe flat out consuming those souls.

Lol, okay.

It's a widely-accepted belief in spiritualist circles that some spirits are stronger than others, indicating some have more energy in them.

Does it really? If the soul/spirit produces an energy that we "can not measure", how do they know that some spirits are stronger than others?

In fact, how do you know spirits exist at all?

So you're arguing under the assumption that God does have a 'plan' for everybody. That to me does not make sense. It legitimises people saying "it was God's will" when little babies die, which is truly horrendous. Within that assumption, however, I can kinda see how it would be hard to accept that free will existed. However, not having free will would rely on God enforcing his plans, more so than just having them.

Well, I'm not really arguing for something. I interpreted your post as you not seeing how one could connect free will to religion, so I answered what I thought some people might answer.

 

[NYHunter]

When I prayed to the gods, nothing. When I prayed to the spirits, something.

I had no supernatural experiences during my episodes of faith. I did have what I consider to be supernatural experiences during my spiritual phase, and that solidified my belief that there is something else...

Whether it's the spirits of the dead, spirits conjured up from some force, or beings of another plane somehow intersecting ours, I'm not sure.

1) What do you me by "something"? Did you physically or emotionally sense something? Did a bad situation in your life took a turn for the better? The more specific you can comfortably be, the better.

2) Why do you consider those experiences to be supernatural rather than paranormal?

3) I'm just a bit confused as to how someone who is able to reject religion can then turn around and start talking about spirits? Which leads me to this:

How does that work? What's the science behind that?

If one's ability to think is separate from the body, how come drugs work? How do you explain lobotomy? How come people sometimes suffer from amnesia when they hit their heads?

If we can not measure it then how do you know there's any such thing?
Lol, okay.

Does it really? If the soul/spirit produces an energy that we "can not measure", how do they know that some spirits are stronger than others?

In fact, how do you know spirits exist at all?

Indeed. But, that's the point isn't it? This is a religion thread, not a science one, so he doesn't need to prove anything. The supernatural, by definition, can not be explained by science. It doesn't rely any less on pure faith than any religion does.

And my final question for T-Fox. Do you believe in nature spirits? Apparently 30% of so-called Catholics believe such things exist in places like mountains and rivers. And if you do, do you believe they were involved in the creation of this world?

 

[Camikaze]

Yes I agree, but here's a better question: Where do you draw the line with hate speech? Is condemning Homosexuality hate speech? Is calling it an abomination hate speech? Is suggesting they be legally prosecuted hate speech? Is calling for their execution hate speech?

While I would not support any form of prosecution, I would say denying them the right to say those things is an infringment on freedom of religion.

That's just giving an example, it could probably be applied to other contentious areas as well.

The fourth one is most definitely hate speech, and should not be covered by freedom of religion, just as it is not covered by freedom of speech. Freedom of religion is essentially a subset of freedom of speech in this regard. Saying that is part of your 'religion' does not place you above the law. But it is nevertheless important that freedom of religion as a specific is preserved.

 

[Hygro]

Won't vote the the poll because you referred to God with a gendered pronoun.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

I'm an agnostic pantheist.

 

[Dachs]

Won't vote the the poll because you referred to God with a gendered pronoun.

Won't vote in the poll because you referred to gods with a singular pronoun.

 

[Methos]

Before someone asks, I clicked there is a heaven, there is no hell

Same here, though my reason is based on incorrect translations of Gehenna as what is commonly referred to as Hell. I also believe this as several places in the Bible the statement implies that you either go to Heaven or are dead/destroyed/ended. In other words, you simply cease to exist.

I based my beliefs off of more then just the Bible. For instance, I consider many Books of the Nag Hammadi library as Scripture.

I believe accepting God/Christ into your heart is just the opening of the door, and not the 'get out of jail free card' that so many Christians consider it these days.

I believe Jesus wasn't saying you had to worship Him, or his words, but that he was teaching how to become like Him. For it is said, we are all God's children, we just haven't figured out how to reach that state yet.

I'm what most Orthodox Christians refer to as a heretic, as I'm considered a Gnostic Christian.

 

[sophie]

Won't vote in the poll because you referred to gods with a singular pronoun.

Greek pantheon 4 lyf.

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

Only Bacchus can rock us.

 

[Tani Coyote]

How does that work? What's the science behind that?

Let's go purely scientific and pessimistic. The sentience we enjoy is merely a bunch of energy coursing through our heads. Now remove the body. Enough energy, theoretically, could hold itself together and maintain sentient thought. Even without a body.

If one's ability to think is separate from the body, how come drugs work? How do you explain lobotomy? How come people sometimes suffer from amnesia when they hit their heads?

Assuming the brain is the link between the soul and the body, damage to the brain will obviously damage the link.

If we can not measure it then how do you know there's any such thing?

That's obvious. Faith.

Does it really? If the soul/spirit produces an energy that we "can not measure", how do they know that some spirits are stronger than others?

In fact, how do you know spirits exist at all?

Faith and faith, mister hyena.

1) What do you me by "something"? Did you physically or emotionally sense something? Did a bad situation in your life took a turn for the better? The more specific you can comfortably be, the better.

Well, occasionally, while sleeping, it would feel as if something had crawled into the bed with me. Others have offered scientific explanation for this, so onto the other incidents.

Very rarely do I "sense" something. I merely receive signs whenever I am in doubt of spirits - something that would never happen with divine entities. This has convinced me to pursue the spiritual rather than the religious, since I believe I found something.

2) Why do you consider those experiences to be supernatural rather than paranormal?

If by paranormal you mean things like ESP and whatnot, I'd say they can be very interconnected.

The strange coincidences did not happen until after the night "he" was created. Given their nature, I attribute them to the spirit in question.

3) I'm just a bit confused as to how someone who is able to reject religion can then turn around and start talking about spirits? Which leads me to this:

That's easy. Why does God need to be a part of any spirits? Let's go from a more "scientific" perspective and not assume God at all.

You and I exist right now, yes? What is to say that, in some way, the sum of our thoughts and emotions - our personality, our soul - somehow couldn't survive past death? If our consciousness is indeed just a mass of energy signals, why couldn't that energy, if concentrated enough, hold itself together post-mortem?

And my final question for T-Fox. Do you believe in nature spirits? Apparently 30% of so-called Catholics believe such things exist in places like mountains and rivers. And if you do, do you believe they were involved in the creation of this world?

I believe in any kind of spirit, regardless of geography, age or intent. It's a mass of energy that is concentrated enough to gain sentience, just like we are.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You and I exist right now, yes? What is to say that, in some way, the sum of our thoughts and emotions - our personality, our soul - somehow couldn't survive past death? If our consciousness is indeed just a mass of energy signals, why couldn't that energy, if concentrated enough, hold itself together post-mortem?

It needs a medium? If a match burns up, where does all that energy go?

Or maybe that's the wrong analogy. Could you point at a natural phenomena where energy keeps itself in existence, to have a reference point. It's a little hard for me to see how energy would keep itself together.

 

[Tani Coyote]

Could you point at a natural phenomena where energy keeps itself in existence, to have a reference point. It's a little hard for me to see how energy would keep itself together.

Simple: Everything in existence.

How? Everything is composed of atoms. If you keep digging inside the atom, you eventually find raw energy, do you not? All that energy pulls itself together, forming the basis of everything.

So the energy of our consciousness works splendidly while inside our brains. But, what about if we remove the physical vessel? There is no longer any energy going inside to replace what is expended.

So enough energy will keep itself together, and still have that sentience unlocked from so much energy in one place, but the issue becomes how it sustains itself. That I do not know. We can go from a "scientific" perspective and assume it consumes some sort of energy(possibly a kind we can't measure), or a more faithful perspective and assume the soul is somehow a kind of eternal battery.

 

[Yared]

Indeed. But, that's the point isn't it? This is a religion thread, not a science one, so he doesn't need to prove anything. The supernatural, by definition, can not be explained by science. It doesn't rely any less on pure faith than any religion does.

This is a thread. You discuss things in threads. He came on here and posted his spiritual beliefs. If he doesn't want to answer it then fine, but I'd hope that he'd at least try to explain them and argue for why he believes in them.

I would hope Tani to be above the "I believe in X for some arbitrary reason and I'm gonna assign it some attributes and throw in fancy words like 'energy' to make it sound more credible"-people

Greek pantheon 4 lyf.

Norse > Greek

We have Týr

Spoiler :

Link to video.

Let's go purely scientific and pessimistic. The sentience we enjoy is merely a bunch of energy coursing through our heads. Now remove the body. Enough energy, theoretically, could hold itself together and maintain sentient thought. Even without a body.

Well, it's also matter. If you remove the body, you just have... nothing. The electrical energy will have transformed into some other form, it wont just hang in the air like a ghost.

Besides, I'm pretty sure we'd be able to observe/measure it.

Assuming the brain is the link between the soul and the body, damage to the brain will obviously damage the link.

Okay. Makes sense in some convoluted way
.

That's obvious. Faith.
Faith and faith, mister hyena.

I really dislike that word The most convenient cop-out evaar.

 

[sendos]

I'm an aethist and I fail to see any significance in religion. Here's my analysis of it:
Positives:
- Sets up communities (churches, mosques, temples, synagogues)
- Strengthens people mentally/spiritually (I think they're the same thing because they're both non-spatial).
- Sets good morals (although they're basic ones)
- Provides some good lessons in life
- It's good to have ideals. It prevents the world from becoming completely cynical from realists.

Negatives:
- Conflict between religions (failure to respect differences)
- Religious institutions (notably Islam (I'm not attacking them but this is true) forcing their religion on non-believers. This is happening a lot in the Middle East, where the Muslim majority persecutes the minority religions.
- When religious institutions can't adhere to their own standards (this really sickens me). Examples: Paedophilic priests and Islamic extremists using suicide bombing tactics when nothing is said to do so in the Koran.
- When ideals go too far, such as saying that your religion should occupy the whole world and other religions suck.
- Attacks against common sense, logic, intellectual integrity, and science devaluing them under religion. For example: abortions, contraceptives, evolution.
- Extreme laws and laws that epically fail (are no longer enforced). For example: celibacy for priests (I think this is the cause for paedophilia and homosexual priests because they're desperate for sex), no sex after marriage, Sharia Law, circumcision.
- The term blasphemy. If you are against blasphemers/heretics of your religion and you support freedom of speech, you have double standards.
- When religion interferes with politics. And theocracy (see Iran's political structure).

In terms of afterlife, I think it's true that there is life after death because I believe that there's a strong correlation between sleep and death. If you read the Iliad, there are two twin-brother gods called SLeep and Death who both take a warrior away from the battlefield. I use this reference because this was the cause of my belief. The reason why I believe this is because death is a supposedly permanent version of sleep (and the dreams resemble heaven and hell or limbo) and sleep is a temporary version of death. Perhaps death is like a very long sleep and suddenly we wake up young again (and perhaps different sex as well). What would definitely prove this is if a child had memories of the life he/she used to have as a different person.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Simple: Everything in existence.

How? Everything is composed of atoms. If you keep digging inside the atom, you eventually find raw energy, do you not? All that energy pulls itself together, forming the basis of everything.

So the energy of our consciousness works splendidly while inside our brains. But, what about if we remove the physical vessel? There is no longer any energy going inside to replace what is expended.

So enough energy will keep itself together, and still have that sentience unlocked from so much energy in one place, but the issue becomes how it sustains itself. That I do not know. We can go from a "scientific" perspective and assume it consumes some sort of energy(possibly a kind we can't measure), or a more faithful perspective and assume the soul is somehow a kind of eternal battery.

Trying to follow, there's a couple of leaps there I have trouble with though.

So the energy of our consciousness works splendidly while inside our brains. But, what about if we remove the physical vessel? There is no longer any energy going inside to replace what is expended.

Not sure which inside you mean here after having removed the vessel. And not sure how you can draw the conclusion. So enough energy will keep itself together

Which seems to be key to my not following

 

[Yared]

he reason why I believe this is because death is a supposedly permanent version of sleep (and the dreams resemble heaven and hell or limbo) and sleep is a temporary version of death. Perhaps death is like a very long sleep and suddenly we wake up young again (and perhaps different sex as well).

Sleep = Brain activity. It also gets oxygen and other nice stuff due to blood flow.
Death = No brain activity. In fact, the brain decomposes.

I don't understand how a brain can dream when it doesn't even exist.

 

[Behind The Mask]

Now, I might be wrong, but heres how I see it...

This energy, as described by TaniciusFox, remains together following the demise of the vessel, or body.

In a way, this would represent this energy in a solid form, containing it as one match... but this seems off considering how we few these forta things (note, its been some time since I had a physics class or what not but bear with me)

However, this energy/spirit/soul or whatever depended on a physical vessel to maintain itself in life. if it took a vessel to maintain it, that leads me to believe that this energy can be viewed as either a liquid or a gas, with gas being more likely.

In either case though, if this energy is not a solid it is unable to maintaining itself. As either a gas or fluid this energy falls apart, making it useless, then it is recycled and so forth via the Laws of Conservation of Energy.

The whole arguement seems based in that this energy stays together once the use of the vessel is expended; but if that were so then in its place we would have a solid object rather then, so, the gas like ghosts depicted in the media.

This meaning, it would take some 'magical' force to hold this gas (or liquid) together to form this soul, mostly invalidating it.

Course, I don't know anything, I'm just ranting on at 5 AM with barely a basic recollection of Solid, Liquid, Gas and the Law of Conservation of Energy.