What can the Democrats do?

Arwon said:
Doesn't he live in DC making his vote perfectly irrelevant
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My line of reasoning was (and I knew it) strained. It imagined the possibility of a disputed election, of Trump making claims of voter fraud, and of Trump pointing to lower Democratic vote totals even in sapphire areas as part of his "proof" that voter fraud had occurred (in the disputed areas): "See, even DC went to Harris by 5 points less than it went to Dems in 2016 and 2020. That establishes the scale of the fraud and proves that I actually won Pennsylvania by 2 points rather than losing it by 3." Then the case goes to the SC for resolution and they buy that line of reasoning.

Run up the totals as much as possible everywhere to make the repudiation of Trump as evident as possible.

Alas.
 
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Hygro said:
The words are ever evolving but this is being "moderate". You aren't positioned in the center equating "both sides", you are moderating your ferver for change but the directionality is "consensus progressive", which is the policy position of like 70% of Americans, and the "team" of like 55%.
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"moderate" and "centrists" are quite often conflated, especially by the same people who tend to spit venom at them, despite, as you point, "moderate" being about process and "centrist" being about having a middle position on the Overton window.
Making those who embrace dynamic centrism letting or even wanting the pro autocrats and theocrats to win. Wanting whichever side is dominant to dominate faster so that the master can be supplicated in return to their immunity to attention.
Centrists embrace the extreme, just paint themselves as being outside the target.

It's simple math. sum(wing_positions) / count(population) = centrist_position.
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I'm not convinced that such people ("dynamic centrists") actually exist in significant numbers, but rather than as what is the center varies, it might give the illusion of the same people changing their mind and "adjusting" while in reality it's a change on which people are being part of it.
Of course, we need to remember that lots of people will change their mind over time (that's why elections aren't pre-determined), but it happens all over the spectrum, not specifically in the center (though I guess it might be felt more there, especially in a two-parties system which is battled in the center).
Stable moderates who were once in the center are now distant the "centrist" position, they don't consider anything "mainstream" Republicans say at all. They might want to progress society incrementally, usually view a North European influence to be a good direction generally. The dynamic centrist meanwhile now views the stable moderate position as the leftwing position to only half accept. That somehow a good synthesis is between militant ICE and its extra judiciary efforts and a strict immigration system. The centrist takes the Republican talking points at face value, and repeats the ones that are design to "sound" centrist as their own position. Every lie JD Vance tells to sound "reasonable", while he does something off the deep end, is the centrist position. Ever moving, shifting, to be the moat around the rightwing castle. Or leftwing, if the left is strong enough.

There is an inertia problem.The Republicans by their nature can suddenly lurch right, and pull the centrists with them. The left cannot. Our differences branch too far, our core agreement just simply isn't radical at all. We cannot lurch the center back, we can only be resonant and in harmony enough to be heard more clearly than the right's position. Our wing's party has to cater to the frustration that we as a whole have more stable values and seek compromise.

On a practical level this means the center is just this moving target between "normal" and "radical right", dictated by the right.
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Dunno about that, the Overton windows had certainly moved much to the (social, not economic) left for decades before the recent fast-track rush into (political) fascist Trumpism.
What you said about people with stable positions getting moved around because of changing equilibrium certainly resonates, but I can absolutely vouch, from personal experience, that it actually went the opposite way - I mean, I must already have pointed about ten years ago that despite having very stable political opinions, I went from being one of the "very left-wing" people to getting called a right-winger (even if it's hyperbolic, it does show a directional change).
 
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Do the Democrats even need to do anything?

Just do like they always do, and hinge entirely on Trump being so bad/causing another recession that the candidate they choose doesn't even have to try other than being a deep party connected big wig.
 
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The choices are AOC, Newsom and Harris (probably plus Pritzker, Shapiro, Whitmer, Booker and Bootyjudge will run and lose bigly). Bernie's not going to run again. He'll back AOC instead. Warren will probably run again rather than just join Bernie in backing AOC, but she has no chance.
 
Sommerswerd said:
The choices are AOC, Newsom and Harris (probably plus Pritzker, Shapiro, Whitmer, Booker and Bootyjudge will run and lose bigly). Bernie's not going to run again. He'll back AOC instead. Warren will probably run again rather than just join Bernie in backing AOC, but she has no chance.
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So empty suits and AoC?
 
Ordnael said:
"mostly because she doesn’t want to do that to her and Barack’s daughters, Malia, 26, and Sasha, 23."
Fair enough.

Too bad for Americans though.
I always thought Hillary running for president was a very severe casting error. Michelle always felt like a much better human!
I do hope she reconsiders in 8 years time!
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Not a fan of the idea of having dynasties in a democracy, though.
Bush Senior => Bush Jr wasn't exactly a resounding endorsement already, and it doesn't mesh well with republican (the concept, not the party) theme.
 
Akka said:
Not a fan of the idea of having dynasties in a democracy, though.
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Me neither...but I think humanity would have let this one slide. I am unsure if Michelle would have won against the hog emperor of doom though. He did make his 2016 campaign on the "lock her up" motto against Hillary...I guess he would have nothing catchy to throw at Michelle.
 
He'd throw stuff until he found something that his crowds found catchy, and then he'd use that incessantly.

He basically used his rallies as a way to focus-test ideas. Just constant stream-of-consciousness, but then paying attention to what landed.
 
Akka said:
Not a fan of the idea of having dynasties in a democracy, though.
Bush Senior => Bush Jr wasn't exactly a resounding endorsement already, and it doesn't mesh well with republican (the concept, not the party) theme.
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Then you're gonna love it when the Trump kids start taking office after he passes away:ack: .
 
Ordnael said:
If we get Ivanka...maybe!
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concerned.gif


Sommerswerd said:
Then you're gonna love it when the Trump kids start taking office after he passes away:ack: .
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I find this a bit implausible. At least, I don't think any of his kids can politically survive being subjected to any kind of competitive political process, whether that's an election or arcane maneuvering within the context of a more authoritarian/closed political system.

It is funny as hell to imagine like a Game of Thrones type situation where Eric ends up the last man standing though.
 
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