What civs are missing from Civ3?

[GhengisFarb]

Civs I'm working on (biggest holdup is Renaissance Style clothing- I ain't got none):

Dutch- William of Orange
Portugal - Prince Henry the Navigator
Byzantine- Empress Theodora
Spain - Phillip II
Celts - Queen Boudicca

Last two are alternate leaderheads for civs in PTW.

 

[Senoj]

What program do you use to create your leaderheads GenghisFarb?

 

[Veera Anlai]

Genghis, Sween, and I all use Poser to make our leaderheads...

Anyways, here are my suggestions on the three remaining civilizations...

Mali - I'd choose this over Songhai, simply because I've never heard of Songhai. I mean, at least Mali made it into my high school history book ;-)

Aborigine (Note the spelling!) - Australia needs some sort of representative, and I think he Aborigines would be a decent choice. Make Cathy Freeman the Leader!

Tibet - I rather like the idea of this country, and I would rather have it than another Europe clone-civ.

Oh, and Senoj, you're making your civ choices based too heavily upon playing the Real World map. A majority of us play the random maps, where uniqueness and interest are more important than RL placement.

 

[Antiochus VII]

My votes in order of priority (with a little added plea for each) :

1 Poland - would fill one of the few 'gaps' in Europe, and was one of the great powers til late 1700's (at least in size). Great history with Sweden(Vikings), Russia, Germany and Ottomans. Unique unit could be
Lancer (heavy cavalry) 7-3-3? which retained lance, sword and light armor into 1700's and was highly effective against the Turks, Cossacks, AND EVEN the pike squares of the west. A cool shock unit for the enlightenment era.
Tons of great leaders available including John Sobieski who routed the Ottomans at Vienna in 1683 with the above unique unit.

2 Tibet - good unique unit, fun and interactive location, child leader would be fun too. Tibet has a unique culture stretching over thousands of years and was an imperial state for hundreds of years (even allying with the Arabs at one point versus the Chinese). Plus I think Asia needs at least one more civ, since the southeast isn't going to get one. Great leaders such as Khrisong Detsen too!

3 Portugal - was first of western exploring powers and a caravel special unit would give them the jump start they had historically (when they dominated the Indian ocean and contended with the Ottomans and Indians there). They'd be fun to play too as the first real maritime power in the gunpowder(ish) era (they were successful against Ottomans/Indians due to their naval power), and have an ample stock of great leaders (Henry the Navigator, Francisco de Almeida, and Affonso de Abuquerque come to mind).

near misses in order

4 Hungary - great unique unit in Horse Archer, fun history raiding western Europe. Just not enough map room and slots.

5 Songhai or Mali - a unique cultural region but...

6 Maya - great civ, but would probably overcrowd region. Otherwise I'd rate them higher.

and some quick 'slams':

Dutch - no room, sorry!

Romania - derived from Roman settlers anyway. No unique unit jumps out. Purely regional power anyway.

Sioux - as my first post, the Iroquois already have their unit!!!

Aberigenee - VERY local, VERY limited tech. Posed no unusual opposition to outside settlement. Polynesians much more widespread (i.e. civ-worthy) and will probably get to region before west anyway if you need opposition there.

Saracen - weren't these just the Arabs anyway? Better to suggest the Berbers if you need another Islamic civ (not that their history begins there by any means).

Thailand - as first post, just get edged out by other civs in all areas.

Czechs - region too crowded again. Second to Hungarians in timespan, unique unit(personal pref), area of influence anyway.

 

[JBearIt]

[
3 Portugal - was first of western exploring powers and a caravel special unit would give them the jump start they had historically (when they dominated the Indian ocean and contended with the Ottomans and Indians there). They'd be fun to play too as the first real maritime power in the gunpowder(ish) era (they were successful against Ottomans/Indians due to their naval power), and have an ample stock of great leaders (Henry the Navigator, Francisco de Almeida, and Affonso de Abuquerque come to mind).

. [/B][/QUOTE]

And don't forget Joao, Marques de Pombal, Pedro

 

[Veera Anlai]

I'm against the addition of any new European civilizations... They're more than represented; if we add any more of those, why not add the Maya? The Americas would still be less crowded than Europe.

Just for reference, below is a list of *all* the civilizations according to continent. Civilizations that we will be adding and civilizations that will be in Play the World are italicized.

America
Americans
Iriquois
Aztecs

South America
Inca

Europe
England
Germany
Rome
Greece
France
Russia
Celts
Spain
Vikings

Africa
Egypt
Zululand
Carthage In Africa, but more European in behavior
Ethiopia

Middle East
Babylonians
Persians
Arabs
Ottomans
Judea

Asia
Indians
Japan
China
Korea
Mongols

Oceania
Polynesia

 

[JBearIt]

Although not really a true civilization in itself, I've added to my own game a "Caribbean" civ that incorporates cities from all the Caribbean islands, the Yucatan penisula of Mexico, and Central America. I use Fidel Castro as the Leader and the Mayan Plumed Archer as the unique unit (Mayans were in the Yucatan). Afterall, part of what you want to consider is how fun it is to play with/against a civ. Fidel makes a great character and it was easy to come up with diplomacy text.

 

[Chris85]

Here's my 3 Suggestions.

1. Songhay
2. Poland
3. Portugal

 

[Kal-el]

Well, since we are down to 3, here are my final three I would like to see.

Poland
Tibet
Sioux - Sitting Bull as the Leader and Steal the UU from the Iroquois and give the Iroquois a new unit based on Scout

 

[Guardian-Azure]

Okay,

I would suggest Mali over Songhai. Mainly because Songhai is Mali. Songhai is just the Mali kingdom under an Islamic rule, and the Songhai kingdom lasted but a spec in time compared to Mali. Of which Mali built up the entire area of the western sahara.
Mali Reigned - 11th Century up through to the end of the 14th.
While Songhai Empire only existed At the the end of the 15th century, and was destroyed in 1590. Not long at all.

Poland I would also suggest being made. During the Midieval era, they were one of the largest powers in europe. Next to Germany. The Poles conquered Lithuanians, and the Poles had the Teutonic Principitalities under their command. Of which, the Teutonic Knights were the only thing standing in the way of Norseman conquering eastern europe, and thus putting large pressure on Germany and the Hungarians.

Then the last I would say should be Tibet. Though, they didn't last hte longest time as soon after they were finally united, the Khans invaded and conquered nearly all of Asia. But during their short stay as a United Kingdom, they vastly influenced the area culturally, and were the first people to unite that area of Asia under a single government. And they did provide quite a resistance to the mongols I think.

So my choices, -Mali, -Poland, -Tibet.


And on a non-related note. Contrary to what some have said on this thread (though I only read the first page before I'm posting this) The Mayans are NOT Aztecs. The Aztecs came about after the fall of the Toltecs. Of which, neither the Toltecs or Mayans are related.

 

[JBearIt]

Originally posted by Guardian-Azure
Okay,

... The Poles conquered Lithuanians, and the Poles had the Teutonic Principitalities under their command. Of which, the Teutonic Knights were the only thing standing in the way of Norseman conquering eastern europe, and thus putting large pressure on Germany and the Hungarians.

.

The Poles didn't conquer Lithuania, rather the two countries united via Royal Marriage - the Grand Duke of Lithuania married the Queen of Poland.

 

[sween32]

You all bring up very good points. There's only one I'm sure I'm voting for, and that's Tibet (remember, I am not a dictator, my vote counts as much as yours). The others I'm not sure. And here's why.

I like the idea of steering clear of the European civs. There's already enough of them, and there's so many others to choose from.

The Souix are great! I've been to where their land and learned alot about them, but I just don't see them in the game.

Mali is a good choice for another civ. They even had an actual golden age, they were an empire that is not really a current country, and really fit into the feel of the game. They would also stop the Zulu from dominating Africa.

I'm all for an Aberigine civ, and I've said that alot. But, Antiochus has a very good point about the Polynesians getting to Australia before anybody else in the game. There's your competition. And a good one, too. With their canoe, the Polynesians will be all over the friggin place, and deservedly so.

The first four civs that have been excepted are solid. The others, not so much. I was hoping we could come up with some really good civilizations that were unquestionably left out. That really didn't happen once we only had 3 left. The truth is, there really aren't that many. There are tons of reasons the Poles should be in the game. But there's two HUGE ones that really stops them. Germany, and not enough room.

I also wanted people to talk about it, give reasons why their ideas should be excepted, and get involved in making decisions. God knows you did that. I'm glad you all got involved, it's a great thing. Hopefully the final list will help motivate people to make more UU's for these extra civs, instead of making extra units that really aren't needed.

I am not biased towards any of the civs that are left. The way it ends up is the way it ends up. But, I'm going to look for a few more civs to put in the selection, just incase we've missed any. If you have any, then SAY IT!

Keep talking, and smack me around a little. I probably deserve it

PS: This is not a list that I'm saying everybody should add to their game. You want to add the Souix and it doesn't make the cut, THEN ADD THEM, DAMNIT! HAVE A BLAST! I'm just trying to motivate people to get involved with using those extra civs that will be available instead of just putting in their home country, and let me know who they think deserves to be in the game. Besides, I'm making leaderheads for the final 7 so it'll make things easier.

 

[hzm]

Go Tibet! (If you read my signature you can tell I'm a little biased but that region does need more civs.) Also an eastern European civ would be good so go Poland!

 

[sween32]

You'd be rootin' for the right people, I'm pretty sure the winners are going to be Tibet, Poland and Mali. Unless something else comes up.

 

[Shockwave]

I hate to add another Civ into the mix, but it's one I've been playing around with adding... The Phoenicians.

An ancient maritime country of southwest Asia consisting of city-states along the eastern Mediterranean Sea in present-day Syria and Lebanon. Its people became the foremost navigators and traders of the Mediterranean by 1250 B.C. and established numerous colonies, including Carthage in northern Africa. The Phoenicians traveled to the edges of the known world at the time and introduced their alphabet, based on symbols for sounds rather than cuneiform or hieroglyphic representations, to the Greeks and other early peoples. Phoenicia's culture was gradually absorbed by Persian and later Hellenistic civilizations.

A perfect example of a civ being culture flipped Also a major world player and undoubtedly the most powerful trading 'nation' of that era (Scientifc/Commercial with build Naval/Commerce/Wealth often)

Buuuuuuutt, feet back on the ground

Deff in
Inca
Ethiopia
Polynesians
Judea

Agree with them all apart from Judea, but that's my personal opinion (I'll likely use this mod as a base and replace Judea with Phoenicia)

So three more...

Aborigine I still go for, on a huuuuuuuuge world map (gotta be if you want 31 civs) there should be plenty of islands for the Polynesians to settle, Aus has a big chunk of desert which makes settling the whole of the land a tricky situation (At least until the later eras). It's possible to 'cripple' the Aboriginie as well by simply making the AI not build naval units, limiting them to Australia.

Second choice... Poland. Fits in nicely and the majority agree. So that leaves my third choice.. Assuming you don't replace the US with Sioux, then it would have to be adding the Sioux.

 

[sween32]

OK, here are the votes.

THE WINNERS OF THE FINAL 3
Poland: 6
Tibet: 6
Aborigine: 4

THE LOSERS
Portugal: 3
Mali: 3
Souix: 2

THE ELITE 7
- Inca
- Ethiopia
- Polynesians
- Judea
- Poland
- Tibet
- Aborigine

Good Job, guys! We really accomplished something here. Now go out and make some units and pedias!

Shockwave, the Phoenicians is a very good choice. I wish you would have come up with that earlier I'm sure they would have given Poland a run for their money.

 

[Senoj]

Great Job Sween32! It actually came together and, to be honest, I am Very happy with the result! There is just one problem.... I don't know how and probably am not able to create units. What should I do?

Senoj

 

[JBearIt]

I once again recommend JimmyH's already created Hussar unit for the Polish UU. I've already added Poland to my game but am definitely looking forward to Sween's animated leaderhead. Right now, I'm just using Xerxes in the role of Casimir.

 

[Senoj]

You know Poser? Where can I get it from? Is it free? Send me a private message if you wish or just post it here.

 

[sween32]

There's some tutorials on making units here on CFC. You should get into it. We can always use more unit creators.

Speaking of units, what should the unique units and leaders be?

Inca (Atahualpa)- Slinger (stats?)
Ethiopia (Zawditu) - Sarwe (stats?)
Judea (leader?) - Merkeva?
Polynesia (leader?) - Canoe (galley with no attack available immediately)
Poland (Kasimir) - Hussar (stats?)
Tibet (Dhali Llama, sp?) - Cataphract (stats?)
Aborigine (leader?) - Dart Blower (need new name)

The Aborigine UU, the Dart blower, can be done 2 ways that I can think of. Either, it can be an Archer with an extra movement, or an offensive foot-unit bombarder (no attack or defence, like the artilleries) that is available immediately without pre's or req's. I like the latter one, because you really can't do battle with a blow dart. So, it could be used effectively by putting it with a stack of units so if it's attacked, they get the first hit. And it can sit around and peg opponants that pass by. Although catapults are available some-what early, they are still not really used offensively and this would make a great unit for both the player and the AI.

We face a huge problem with Tibet and Poland. They both have units that improve upon the Knight. There's already far too many knight UU's. So, what I propose is making the Hussar a completely new kind of unit that's available with the Knight instead of replacing it. Hussars were basically used as decoys that actually fought back. They had bright colors to attract attention, and would flee, setting the opponent into a trap. So, maybe what we could do is make them have the same stats as a swordsman, maybe 1 shield cost more, but they have 3 movement. Then, the Cataphract could have the only Knight stat replacement left; 5/3/2.

Judea is a hard one to find a UU for. I've seen alot of people say slinger, but the Incas would probably be better off with that. Israel's Merkeva seems to make the most sence, since there's no current or future UU based on the modern tank. It would also satisfy alot of peoples want for that unit.

The Polynesians are going to whup some ass with their canoe. They'll get a much needed early start on settling in the Oceana. Can you say: Hard to kill without hundreds of transports full of marines?

There's already an Ethiopian UU, but most people are using it as just an African Spearman. The hard part is the stats for the Sarwe. The Hoplite and Zulu UU have the only real options.