What do physics geeks think of Gravitons?

[CartesianFart]

Sidhe: It's quite simple. If someone makes an incorrect claim about physics, someone with knowledge has the right to correct them. This has nothing to do with ganging up on you - other people would do the same to me if I make an incorrect claim. Physics isn't like spelling- being correct matters.

You're not a physicist; neither am I. We boh make mistakes. I never admited that I was perfect. Stop getting so emotional over such a trivial issue, lest you get this thread closed.

As for spelling, the only time I have ever done something akin to that was say to Vietcong that spelling has nothing to do with autism, relating to his signature, in which he blamed his poor spelling to his autism.

If you sincerly claim to not be a physicist and then all of the sudden try to correct someone claiming to know physics-how would you know if you are right or wrong?

Unless you have a sense of being a psuedo one and can somehow differentiate what posters are psuedo or professional.

 

[Bill3000]

If you sincerly claim to not be a physicist and then all of the sudden try to correct someone claiming to know physics-how would you know if you are right or wrong?

Unless you have a sense of being a psuedo one and can somehow differentiate what posters are psuedo or professional.

Because I'm a physics undergraduate, and since I don't have a PHD, I'm not as experienced in the subject as I could be. I am not claiming to know all of physics, because that would be an arrogant assumption. However, it doesn't mean that I know nothing about physics - what I am saying is that neither of us is an authority on the matter.

Anyway, we're drifting off topic. What's more important is the original topic, and I don't think the original poster would like to read this.

 

[Sidhe]

Sidhe: It's quite simple. If someone makes an incorrect claim about physics, someone with knowledge has the right to correct them. This has nothing to do with ganging up on you - other people would do the same to me if I make an incorrect claim. Physics isn't like spelling- being correct matters.

You're not a physicist; neither am I. We boh make mistakes. I never admited that I was perfect. Stop getting so emotional over such a trivial issue, lest you get this thread closed. I like how you did a huge ad hominem on me instead of replying to me civilly, by the way - I had no ill intent in my post.

As for spelling, the only time I have ever done something akin to that was say to Vietcong that spelling has nothing to do with autism, relating to his signature, in which he blamed his poor spelling to his autism.

Oh no really aren't you clever?

I was referring to TLC, he seemed to delight in picking up ever little error in grammar at one point, as if it gave him some sort of cheap thrill. Oh and believe me it was, it's like mocking a Down's syndrome kid for being thick. Cheap and pointless.

I only said that each of the forces has a mediator particle that is roughly analogous, and your making out I have claimed something else, I never did? How is saying there are 4 gauge bosons which mediate the forces, and thus can be loosely compared on this making an erroneous claim, honestly I'm beginning to believe that people who study physics are actually just anal colossal pedants, who like stroking there egos, please tell me this isn't the case, because next year when I start studying it I hope not every ones like you and Perfection, because God help physics if they are, I think I'll do biology if that's the case. Apparently the trait of OCD is alive and well in physics.

well f*** me look they even compare them on this wiki site, hadn't you better edit it quickly before people get the wrong idea?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_boson

Please just shut up, no one cares, and your just being asses.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

honestly I'm beginning to believe that people who study physics are actually just anal colossal pedants, who like stroking there egos, please tell me this isn't the case, because next year when I start studying it I hope not every ones like you and Perfection, because God help physics if they are, I think I'll do biology if that's the case.

Based on my experience of over 20 years ago, yep, physicists are indeed colossal pedants. And how seriously we used to take ourselves, too (except when we were trying terribly hard to show how modest we were). But, honestly, I don't recall the biologists being much better.

There are some nice physicists, though - read some stuff on Richard Feynman. The trouble is, of course, that most physics undergrads end up thinking they're the next Feynman...

 

[Bill3000]

I only said that each of the forces has a mediator particle that is roughly analogous, and your making out I have claimed something else, I never did?

You said this, edited at ~11:45 AM today:

Just to be clear, electrons/photons-electro magnetism.

Graviton~photon
Higg's Boson~Electron

I didn't see the original post. All I did was basically wonder what you meant by "Higg's Boson~Electron" here - if that's a typo, then fine, but I thought the typo was related to the graviton, given the context of previous posts.

I'm beginning to believe that people who study physics are actually just anal colossal pedants, who like stroking there egos, please tell me this isn't the case, because next year when I start studying it I hope not every ones like you and Perfection, because God help physics if they are, I think I'll do biology if that's the case. Apparently the trait of OCD is alive and well in physics.

Other than the fact that Perfection isn't a physics major (He's EE), I'll answer this: I said that I wouldn't wait for a debate between KH and you for a reason, and that's because KH is far much more of an ass than any of us here that you try to make us appear to be. The answer is yes, physicsts are huge pedants.

Please just shut up, no one cares, and your just being asses.

Well, first of all it's quite clear that you care, given the fact that you put me on your ignore list and then replied. Second of all, I'm not insulting you. I was just confused by your post and am asking for clarification - if it's a typo, then just change it, and I apologize, but this line of conduct is uncalled for and will only lead for this thread's closure.

 

[col]

I am a Cambridge Physics graduate and I lecture in it.

What do you want to know?

 

[Sidhe]

Bill3000 Does it matter that much that a mistake like that gets through particularly when you take great lengths to point it out? It's just a mistake, live with it, does it hurt to see a mistake? I think it's pretty clear to anyone reading this, which I doubt anyone is any more since the war of the pedants took over. Is pretty much aware of the fact that it's a mistake.

The only thing I really want to know is why I am being picked on so much? What is it that everyones got against me? If it's not Perfection, then TLC jumps on board, rather than just leave it, he jumps back on board again after making a mistake earlier, then points something out which I clear up, then I have to have 3 pages of basically people behaving like little kids, do you comprehend why this annoys me so much, it's because I get it constantly, whatever I post, there's Perfection telling me that I'm wrong again, and it's not like I'm just constantly wrong sometimes it's like today a typo or a mistake, and then I get two pages of criticism anyway even though the error isn't even an error? Or TLC correcting my grammar or x, or y, it's just sad. Stop doing it it's childish. Or pages of crap about this from 50, and a hundred and one people arguing that the dictionary definition is wrong? I mean what's up with these people?

Not only that but grammar policing is against the rules, that doesn't stop anyone, apparently people can't follow the rules.

 

[The Last Conformist]

@Sidhe: The below post is the cause of at least half your trouble in this thread:

I never said that, but if your going to pick on everything I write then you are being pretty petty. I don't think 50 wanted the explanation of QED,QCD QMD and field theory, if you'll note the first post I tried to give people an understanding of

Graviton~electron(or graviton is poorly or very roughly equivalent to the electron)
Higg's Boson~photon(or is poorly or very roughly equivalent to the photon)

Obviously referring to electromagnetic radiation.

Why complicate things by explaining the entire range of interactions?

Based on your subsequent posts, I can't tell whether your strange equivalences are simply mistyped, the result of erroneous understanding on your part, or what. If you were to explain what you meant, maybe we could put matters straight amicably.

 

[Sidhe]

@Sidhe: The below post is the cause of at least half your trouble in this thread:


Based on your subsequent posts, I can't tell whether your strange equivalences are simply mistyped, the result of erroneous understanding on your part, or what. If you were to explain what you meant, maybe we could put matters straight amicably.

It's just a mistake I've already said this? Are you not reading it? This is what I mean, even when I say I cocked up and accidently reversed them, I still get the same questions? Can you not read?

Jst admit it TLc, when I said I hadn't made a mistake your ego was peaked and you decided to go back through the post and look up any mistake so that you could point it out at length and stroke your cavernous ego. This is what annoys me, it's just childish ego bashing/stroking, look if you wanted to ruin a perfectly interesting thread by acting like asses, great mission achieved.


Moderator Action: Discussion should focus on the subject, not on other posters. Warned.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[warpus]

So.. I know that String Theory and M-Theory predict the graviton.. but are there any other frameworks/theories that predict it as well? If M-Theory is wrong, or flawed in some way, we have no other theory that predicts the existence of this particle?

Also... Isn't gravity, according to Einstein, just the curving/warping of space-time? If it turns out that gravity is in fact caused by gravitons, would that mean that the Einsteinian view of gravity is incorrect? Or is it just a different (yet correct) way of looking at it?

 

[The Last Conformist]

It's just a mistake I've already said this? Are you not reading it? This is what I mean, even when I say I cocked up and accidently reversed them, I still get the same questions? Can you not read?

I can read quite well, thank you. I also note that my first reply concerning that post went unanswered and that my second was answered with a claim you had edited the post, which you certainly had not done.

Furthermore, if it's a matter of reversal, I think I'm owed an explanation in what sense you consider the electron and the Higgs to be equivalents (rough or otherwise).

Finally, your initial statements here were framed as explanation for those not into the subject. Those who assume the didactive mantle better make sure they're right or expect to be corrected, for irrespective of the size of my, Perf's, or Bill's ego nobody likes seeing misinformation being spread.

 

[The Last Conformist]

So.. I know that String Theory and M-Theory predict the graviton.. but are there any other frameworks/theories that predict it as well? If M-Theory is wrong, or flawed in some way, we have no other theory that predicts the existence of this particle?

Any quantum theory of gravitation must include a graviton.

Also... Isn't gravity, according to Einstein, just the curving/warping of space-time? If it turns out that gravity is in fact caused by gravitons, would that mean that the Einsteinian view of gravity is incorrect? Or is it just a different (yet correct) way of looking at it?

The Einsteinian view of gravity is, presumably, incomplete. It's extremely accurate at macro scales, so a successful theory of quantum gravity would have to reduce to it in the appropriate limit, while giving acceptable quantum behaviour at micro scales.

In other words, warping of space-time would have to remain, but our precise understanding of it would have to be refined.

 

[Sidhe]

I can read quite well, thank you. I also note that my first reply concerning that post went unanswered and that my second was answered with a claim you had edited the post, which you certainly had not done.

Furthermore, if it's a matter of reversal, I think I'm owed an explanation in what sense you consider the electron and the Higgs to be equivalents (rough or otherwise).

Finally, your initial statements here were framed as explanation for those not into the subject. Those who assume the didactive mantle better make sure they're right or expect to be corrected, for irrespective of the size of my, Perf's, or Bill's ego nobody likes seeing misinformation being spread.

No your a pedant, just admit it, you like nothing better than to point out errors, it's not the dislike of spreading misinformation, your one of those people who plays the grammar spelling police because that sort of thing gets you off.

I have explained it all I'm going to, if you don't understand what I have said frankly I don't care any more. This thread has lost all interest for me. I think I'll go back to the other physics thread where at least people know how to behave like decent people and not spend the entire thread just playing spot the error and massaging there egos.

 

[Mathilda]

Moderator Action: Please try to focus on the subject.

 

[Perfection]

I lecture in it.

SCORE!

What do you want to know?

Do you see any reasonable prospect for finding these little buggers? If so how?

Would gravitons have distinct wavelenths like photons? Or is it all one universal wavelenght? What about polarization?

 

[Perfection]

Any quantum theory of gravitation must include a graviton.

Why do you say that?

 

[col]

Its a reasonable conjecture that a quantum theory of gravity would include the graviton . All other quantum force carriers do.

Our real problem is that general relativity explains all experiments. Quantumchromodynamics explains all experiments.

The two theories however are incompatible. Sadly in order to get an experimental test which decides between them we need a situation of extreme graviational fields at atomic scales. A black hole in the lab would be perfect but it has a downside.

Most physicists believe that it is GR that will have to be amended. There are many quantum theories - string theory fr example - but we habe no way of testing them.

There are hopes that the large hadron collider (LHC) at CERN may reach high enough energies to allow us to test some things - the Higgs boson for example, but I cant see how we could test for the existence of the graviton.

But then, no one ever can see where the brekthrough will come until someone does it when it was obvious all along.

 

[Perfection]

Its a reasonable conjecture that a quantum theory of gravity would include the graviton . All other quantum force carriers do.

I'd agree there, but I think TLC is taking it to a higher level then that. Is that the best argument for it?


If gravitons do exist, what must be true about them in terms of physical characteristics?

 

[warpus]

Would something like this be able to detect gravitons? If not, what sort of monster would we need?

 

[Perfection]

Would something like this be able to detect gravitons? If not, what sort of monster would we need?

Nope.

I dunno what kind of monster would be needed.

Maybe this one: