[BTS] What do you do with first Great Scientist?

[Major Tom]

This luxury problem always make me pause the game. Do you use it for something specific without further ado? Assume imm. Do deity change anything?

 

[krikav]

Don't think deity changes much.
Academy first is most common, but it depends on the land and the cities and the circumstances.

Apart from the alternatives you have given, it can sometimes makes sense to settle the first GSci (in iso with alot of good land to settle where you don't beeline optics and astro bulb).

Bulbing math can be an option in early attacks either for mass chopping or just to reach construction faster.

If severely behind, compass is also a nice tradebait to bulb.

 

[Anysense]

Usually bulb Philo/Edu or start GA. Bulb Math when it seems to be worth it.

 

[earthy]

If I'm philosophical I almost always build an academy since great people are cheap. If I'm not philosophical I'll usually save them for philosophy/edu bulbs. The scenario that I find confusing is when you're isolated or semi-isolated with a non-philosophical leader. It can be tough getting three scientists out in time to bulb optics and double bulb astro, so I don't know if it's worthwhile settling the first one or building an academy.

 

[lymond]

If I'm philosophical, I will often bulb Maths first before using the second on an academy or settling it. Situational, of course. But generally, I'm going to build an academy in the cap. As krikav noted though, settling one first may be a better option depending on the land and other factors, like a cap that does not have very good cottageable land. Very good with Rep too.

The bulbing Math thing too is highly dependent on the payback in chops and trade value, or for early war potential

 

[Major Tom]

Since I play peacefully and sprint for music I often bulb philosophy to run a Golden age with for the free great artist, running caste/pacifism for massive bulbs ahead. There are so many good trades to come for the monopoly techs.

I know an early academy is recommended but have a hard time too see the math behind it.

 

[Fippy]

Deity changes a lot, early rush bulbs like the mentioned maths are imo only a good option on deity.
With much more time until AIs can defend themselves, i never did that on Imm.

 

[Gumbolt]

I think pend how games go. On latest game I bulbed philosophy as I needed a religion. Very bespoke map. Academy is normally not a bad option. Pends how far you think the game will go. Religion really helps with golden ages, Play the map is normally best. Waiting for maths on Deity could be difference of a pult rush vs archers or longbow without. 30H can really be useful too for chops.

 

[Major Tom]

Can see the merit of math bulb on deity but isn’t it usually more profitable to tech aesthetics and trade that for math from A and other stuff from B,C and D with it.

 

[Lennier]

It depends on the situation. I play huge/marathon, so the value of an academy (or settling) is relatively less than on smaller maps.

 

[Fippy]

Often maths is not available for trade when you really need it, not as bad as construction but AIs dislike trading wonder techs early (HG).
Usually bulbed for 30h chops into units like HAs (teching HBR, adding scientists for beakers, then enjoying more for chops).
Can be good if you really need to improve your situation early, and have little time.

 

[rah]

I guess I need to think it through more. I usually auto academy.

 

[drewisfat]

I'm not sure I follow how bulbing Math is good for a construction rush, since writing is right before math and we could self-tech math by the time the bulb is ready for it.
Makes more sense to me with what fippy said, where you can run the needed scientists while teching archery/HBR and then power it with big chops. Still kinda want PHI or maybe CRE to make that timing work well though.

I need a capital with like at least a gold tile or the PHI trait to build an academy on Pangaea. I think people overrate the importance of long-term investments, and Liberalism date is usually the last thing that affects the outcome on that script.
Non-pangaea I'd typically build Academy first, unless I really needed a religion.
Settling a GS is heresy.

 

[krikav]

@drewisfat Thats how you do it if you have early elephants, tech HBR with the aid of scientists, then bulb math and then finish construction.

 

[lymond]

Often maths is not available for trade when you really need it.

exactly this. Sometimes you get luck depending on the AIs you know...like a Mansa, but Maths is a wonder tech too, so AIs can often be unwilling to trade it for some time.

 

[sampsa]

I think academies are massively overrated. I gather by 2020 most people realize how bad settling is (in general). Of course, philosophical changes things a bit as does representation (settling is suddenly not that bad). In my opinion, in general great people should be used to bulb and to start a golden age.

 

[Tobiyogi]

It depends also on who you play and if you want to unlock some funky units. Having China or Holy Rome could lead you to Bulb MC/Machinery/Engineering for a CKN/Treb or Landsknecht/Treb rush. Just avoid Fishing. You can also work with GE, if they should pop up.

Academy looks extremly good on the paper, but I rarely feel a big difference. I suppose you need more modifiers like Burocracy, University, Oberservatory etc. to make the Academy worth its investment. This would implicit though that an EARLY academy is a waste of the GS.
I build early academies sometimes, when there is nothing important to bulb, too early for a Golden Age and a settled GS not attractive neither. In such a case, it is just a logical choice to build the Academy NOW rather than let the GS sit in the capitol for 30 turns. But I never see a big research boost from the Academy. Maybe it's because I usually do not play FIN leaders.

In case of a HA or Construction rush, I would usually bulb Maths. Because on IMM, AI techs too slowly and on Deity, they most of the time don't trade it.

 

[sampsa]

Academy looks extremly good on the paper, but I rarely feel a big difference.

To me it doesn't look good even on paper. I mean yeah, double benefit of a library, but a library costs 90 and an academy costs a bulb (+1500). Of course, it's not really that simple.

I suppose you need more modifiers like Burocracy, University, Oberservatory etc. to make the Academy worth its investment.

Well... of the ones you mention only bureau makes an academy better. Others just add more -bonus.

This would implicit though that an EARLY academy is a waste of the GS. I build early academies sometimes, when there is nothing important to bulb, too early for a Golden Age and a settled GS not attractive neither. In such a case, it is just a logical choice to build the Academy NOW rather than let the GS sit in the capitol for 30 turns. But I never see a big research boost from the Academy.

My conclusion is the opposite. Only when you get the GS very early, an academy competes with bulbing. I'm sure in space games academies are useful.

 

[sampsa]

It can be tough getting three scientists out in time to bulb optics and double bulb astro, so I don't know if it's worthwhile settling the first one or building an academy.

In my experince, often both settling and an academy slow down astro date.

 

[lymond]

I don't think an academy is massively overrated. It can pay off quite well if, as you say, you get one early enough. And, of course, you have the appropriate type of land in your cap for cottaging. Also, boosts rep scientists in situations where you can knock out the Mids early.

But I think overall the academy has generally been advised as a passive choice for less experienced players as a "do no wrong" type of decision early to improve their games. However, many times there are more aggressive or strategic uses of GSs depending on the situation like the Maths bulb or whatever. And at the highest level these decisions can be best to win or "breakout".

I did allude to settling above, but really that is a very rare action I would take. Sometimes a Philo/Mids situation gives me two very fast GS early and I will settle>academy or vice versa ..doing whatever provides the bigger boost at first....in lieu of say a Maths bulb if not really optimal at the time. Again, all very situational.

ha..and then you have ye olde SSE/WWE...