What Do You Research First?

Arnesson

Warlord
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
158
Location
Kingston, ON Canada
I was prompted to start this thread based on the poll regarding "What to build first". I took a look around to see if such a poll existed, but didn't see one. My thoughts:

If I have Mysticism, I tend to go after Polytheism (AI's prefer Meditiation)
If I have Mining, I tend to go after BW first.
If I don't have Fishing, and there are 2 or more early water resources, I will go after that first.
If I am playing Hattie, Ramses, Cyrus, 1 of the 2 Khans, or Hannibal, I often will go after AH first, especially if there are cows or sheep close by my Capital.
 
If coastal with seafood and no fishing then fishing first.

If inland with corn/rice/wheat and no ag then ag first.

If inland with lots of forests and start with mining then bw first.

If Egypt/Persia then ah first.

If planning cultural and start with mysticism then poly/medit first.

Most of the time I end up going fishing or ag first.
 
If I have Mining, it will almost certainly be Bronze Working.

Otherwise, I think Agriculture is the most common. In my view farms are extremely powerful in the early game.

A distant third would probably be Animal Husbandry, but I don't grab this as early as a lot of people on the board. Cows on grassland, though, is one case where AH becomes an early priority.

Fishing will only be my initial build if the capital has 2 seafood resources. Even then, if one of them isn't Fish then it may not be a priority.
 
Animal Husbandry/Agriculture if i have animals/farm stuff.

Mining/Bronze Working if i have Fishing and fish food, or start with Agriculture and have farms and no animals.

I hate using my early research on fishing/hunting so i try to avoid that. A fish start with a non-fishing civ is regenerate map for me :p

For me it's all about getting the special resources worked fast, so my tech path is depending on my resources.
 
Monarch player. I have to get a worker asap. But I usually whip him, so I grow pop while I research mining/BW. If you dont start with mining, then it usually only takes 6-8 turns to research it plus 12-15 for BW. After chopping is in place, I tech to writing, and fill in the appropriate worker techs in between.

Funny thing about AG. I usually get it early on, but last night I was an isolated ragnar and I had lots of flood plains which I used for cottages. Then I had seafood, and cows/pigs. It wasnt until after optics and even liberalism that I fanally got AG. In fact it was an available for trade from Alex, one of the first civs that found me.
 
Exactly the same as what the OP does.

Ever since I discovered the power of the Great Library I always go for Poly over Meditation (pre-req for literature). I always end up going for the Oracle anyway, but I don't play that high a level (Prince, played Monarch a few times but never won, but that's not stopped me playing at that level to try and get a bit better).
 
Bronze, Pottery, Animal, and Priest (in order of need) before Writing because I'm not ready to build a library until then and need the optional prereqs for later techs anyway.
 
I dunno, it's worth getting a library in the capital ASAP I find because of the 8 commerce from the palace and it normally has a good food surplus for a scientist or two.
 
ASAP = after 1-2 settlers and 1-2 workers and 1-2 warriors. That's enough time for bronze, pot, animal, priest, writing. I go pot+worker first, and have 1st cottage built at 3220 (quickspeed) if there is a cottagable tile.
 
On huge maps, emperor level, I find I have no choice but to go for archery. If I pick a leader without hunting, then I must do the hunting->archery route (just as well so I can maybe build a scout or two quickly).

Then I go through mining and BW (to see where the bronze is but most importantly to get into slavery civic for whipping). Then wheel for roads to access mines and general road network.

After that I usually try for mysticism, pottery, or writing to be able to build monuments (not needed if creative leader), cottages and libraries quickly.

I usually do not emphasize Animal Husbandry as a must have early research goal as I find with most leaders that the basic chariot is really not that great of unit (poor defense compared to archers while needing to hook up horse and not that great against veteran archers or metal based units either). Only when you can build horse archers or knights or cavalry are then horses a very powerful resource but this comes much later. AH is of course needed just for access to cows and pigs and such but not at the top of the research queue for me.

Perhaps on certain maps and starting situations or on lower levels where barbs are rarely a threat that archery is not needed. However, I cannot imagine how I could survive huge maps on emperor WITHOUT getting archery ASAP. There's no way I'm going to be able to get BW as well as build a worker and mines in time to build up an axeman defensive force. During the time while your worker is mining and building its roads, barbs are already starting to appear so the worker and mine is defended by what - warriors?
 
(I usually do not emphasize Animal Husbandry as a must have early research goal as I find with most leaders that the basic chariot is really not that great of unit (poor defense compared to archers while needing to hook up horse and not that great against veteran archers or metal based units either).

I have to disagree. I find that Chariots in open terrain can munch Warriors, hold their own against Archers and fare very well against Axemen. Swordsmen, of course, eat them alive. But in the early game I find them indispensible in holding the Barbs at bay. Archers defend well, but are poor attack dogs against Axes and easy pickings for Swords.
 
I have to disagree. I find that Chariots in open terrain can munch Warriors, hold their own against Archers and fare very well against Axemen. Swordsmen, of course, eat them alive. But in the early game I find them indispensible in holding the Barbs at bay. Archers defend well, but are poor attack dogs against Axes and easy pickings for Swords.

The problem though is that in order to get chariots, you have the same problem as with relying on axemen/spearmen rather than archers for defense against barbs. You need ready access to a resource and then roads to hook it up. That takes time, in marathon speed a LOT of time. (but everything being proportionally faster the same problem should exist in faster game speeds as well).

And in Emperor level, the AIs are building cities left and right you cannot stop to build a worker, then build mine then roads. The horse or bronze may not be within your borders even (though hopefully within close proximity so that you can build a city near it). But if you are spending time building a worker then you've just delayed founding that new city that you may need to found to access the horse/bronze not to mention the AI has now perhaps a better chance to grab that horse or bronze instead of you since you've delayed yourself in building another settler in favor of a worker.

The beauty of archery is that it requires NO resources and no infrastructure and is much less research intensive than either AH or BW. Many leader start with hunting but even if you don't have hunting, hunting->archery path is still pretty fast.

In lower game levels probably it is not so necessary to race with the AIs to found cities so sparing production for a worker and hooking up horse or bronze is doable. But in Emperor or even Monarch level, the time simply isn't there.

For playing at Monarch or certainly Emperor where you are in a race to grab lands quickly, archery is your only real option. You cannot bypass it in favor of chariots or axeman/spearman.

And furthermore, you will NOT be facing a whole bunch of warriors or even archers. Most barbs are archers and quite a few axeman. AIs quickly hook up their bronze or iron and begin producing axeman, spearman, swordsmen very quickly. And since chariots are fodder against swordsmen and are only okay against axeman, I always emphasize bronze or if bronze is not available, then iron. I have fought many a war with chariots against metal-based armies of axeman and swordsmen and it is a lost cause! (and I only did it because there was no bronze/iron access only horse)

For these reasons, I race to try to get bronze or iron and build up my axeman army ASAP. Even if I have horses, I don't build hardly any chariots (although due to their faster speed they make good pillagers). But that is more a luxury and I will certainly build up metal mines and axeman divisions first.

For higher levels of play where racing against the AIs for cities is a must, archery is a must. There is no time for building the infrastruture for chariots or axeman (nevermind the time to build axeman or chariots themselves). You are racing against the AI for cities. Furthermore unless you are lucky and have ready access to horse or bronze, you will not be able to build up that infrastruture which allows you to build chariots to fight barbarians when they appear as early as 2500BC!
 
I don't know your starting strategy, but i play emperor and have never researched archery. 95% of the time you will have horses or copper close enough to get them soon enough. (I've played all speeds too)

If i have too much room around me i will build some extra warriors for fogbusting duty until i'm ready to expand there. (I get my first chariot/axe around 2600-2400BC, barbs wont enter borders until 2200-2000) If i'm closed in by AI's i'm happy, cause then i might not see a barb at all, and i get some good cities early on from them ;)

IFor playing at Monarch or certainly Emperor where you are in a race to grab lands quickly, archery is your only real option. You cannot bypass it in favor of chariots or axeman/spearman.

And furthermore, you will NOT be facing a whole bunch of warriors or even archers. Most barbs are archers and quite a few axeman. AIs quickly hook up their bronze or iron and begin producing axeman, spearman, swordsmen very quickly. And since chariots are fodder against swordsmen and are only okay against axeman, I always emphasize bronze or if bronze is not available, then iron. I have fought many a war with chariots against metal-based armies of axeman and swordsmen and it is a lost cause! (and I only did it because there was no bronze/iron access only horse)

Chariots is the ultimate barb defense, mobile and crushes axemen.(and very cheap to build too) Most of my games i do the AH route first instead of straight for BW. If you intend to rush an AI with them, you gotta do it quick before spears. Most of the time my chariot rushes is to get copper so i can axe rush the rest of his cities ;) I don't know why you are bothering so much with Iron Working, thats a very costly tech and properly promoted axemen do the job good enough anyway. (only exceptions is Romans of course, if you can get Praets it's another story)
 
Pretty much what every one else above does. I follow the situation; fishing if I need coastal resources, animal husbandry or agriculture if those food resources are plentiful at the start, bronze working as the standby (BW is always early in any case, no more than one resource grab goes ahead of BW, and only to quicken up the slavin').
 
If you have already have fishing and there are sea resources available, what's the best way to build the fishing boat? Should you allow the city to work its best square, grow naturally and just let the boat be built more slowly as a result, or should you focus purely on hammers so that the boat is built ASAP, at the cost of city growth?
 
Well, the best square is probably a floodplain if you have one for a total of 4 bonus (3 food 1 commerce). Unless I'll focus on Bronze Working first to whip the workboat I'd rather work a forested plains hill (3 hammers) to get the boat out in 8 turns (normal speed) then work the seafood tile to grow. Even with Bronze Working it's so-so, since it usually takes around 15 turns for it I think. Even working floodplain first then floodplain + forested plains hill you'll still probably finish the workboat before getting Bronze Working, or close enough for it not to matter much.
 
I don't know your starting strategy, but i play emperor and have never researched archery. 95% of the time you will have horses or copper close enough to get them soon enough. (I've played all speeds too)

I think perhaps the reason I have always needed archery while many others do not is that I play mostly on Huge Terra maps. As the maps are huge and you have the "New World" continents as well, resources are disbursed all over the place, many times in lands unreacheable such as the New World or even empty continents or islands that require sailing. (these do gets generated in Terra maps as it is usually not just one single land mass). Thus resources are scattered and chances of it being near one's starting point in this type of map might be lower than in other map types.

I personally have found though that even if I get chariots, that archers fortified in cities are still really tough for chariots to crack. If promoted with City Defense, then the odds are quite low. True they will kill archers in the open but inside cities, it is VERY tough. I just played a game where I used large stacks of chariots to conquer a city with 3 archers. I was able to do it but with heavy losses as the archers had City Def promotions, in fortified position with city cultural defense, etc.

Due to fast movement, chariots are great raiders and definitely can kill archers and even axeman in the open. They are great for defeating barbs but since in the maps I use I cannot readily access horse and must have slavery civic, I bypass AH until at least after BW almost always. And since chariots are poor against archers in cities, they are also not very good for conquests.

My point being that if I am to play regardless of whether I have easy access to horse or bronze early enough, then archery is the best answer. But on maps and game levels where this is not a concern then I can understand skipping archery.
 
Prince player with huge maps, marathon speed. Really depends on resources at start and leader.

If I have seafood always fishing,
If I have Mysticism always polytheism

Otherwise

Mining: BW usually, wheel if easy gold/gems/silver arround.
Agriculture: AH, wheel, mining
Hunting: Archery, wheel, mining
 
If you have already have fishing and there are sea resources available, what's the best way to build the fishing boat? Should you allow the city to work its best square, grow naturally and just let the boat be built more slowly as a result, or should you focus purely on hammers so that the boat is built ASAP, at the cost of city growth?

Personally I prioritize hammers. The food deficit will be made up as soon as you starting working the seafood, and then you can begin working on something else like a scout. Then, you will quickly get to size 2 thanks to the food, at which point you can switch to a Worker, which will be built fairly quickly, again thanks to the seafood.
 
I don't know why you are bothering so much with Iron Working, thats a very costly tech and properly promoted axemen do the job good enough anyway. (only exceptions is Romans of course, if you can get Praets it's another story)

IN at least half of the games I have played (Warlord/Prince & Noble) there is no Bronze anywhere close to my Capital, and I have to either build 2 or 3 cities to reach it or obtain Iron Working to compensate (fortunately iron can be used for both Axemen and Swords, or I would be in deep trouble). Horses, on the other hand, generally pop up either within the cultural boundaries of my capital, or within few enough tiles that they can be acquired with only 1 city.
 
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