What Happened To Obama?

[TopGearFanatic]

Did I have a dream about 2001-2006?

I thought this thread was about Obama's term. Am I in the wrong thread?

 

[r16]

reality caught with him that he was merely a Black person that the right amount of polish to lull people , the world public opinion , while America the conqueror was catching his breath . America will return in a big way to white man's burden .

 

[wolfigor]

Lets be honest, most of the future debt will be driven by the entitlement programs of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Reform is needed.

According to NY Times these items had relatively little impact on the growt of USA deficit:

Spoiler :

The biggest item in the bill is Bush's tax cuts: their cost is even bigger than the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq put together!

In total:
Bush presidency added 5.07 trillion$ to the debt.
Obama (so far) added 1.44 trillion$ (half of which is stimulus spending).





It's also interesting to see what's the forecast and reality of debt

Spoiler :

Again, in terms of forecast, the tax cuts will continue to have a huge impact on USA debt:

If we look at who owns the accumulated USA debt we can see that the largest part is owned by USA citizens and institutions.

Spoiler :

Not at all. Obama gave a very clear and un-misunderstandable narrative. Change you can believe in. His malfunction was in the fact that after he got elected, he took that narrative and threw it out the window.

I agree on this.
However, in my view, the original narrative during the electoral campaign was extremely empty of concrete facts and oversold.
Obama created a very nice frame in which people painted their dream, and he sold such idea back to the electorate.

2008 was not a vote for Obama--it was a vote against Bush.

Yes, that very true.
At the same time was a vote to say that people really wanted a change after Bush administration.
A change to better the economy of USA citizens and produce jobs.

 

[downtown]

In this thread: most people have no idea what they're talking about.

The answer is persistent unemployment.

Right, but like others have pointed out, he has failed to use his leadership skills to enact policies that will really focus on that. Unemployment is going to get worse in an era of "Austerity". He let Republicans dictate the terms of the conversation.

Not at all. Obama gave a very clear and un-misunderstandable narrative. Change you can believe in. His malfunction was in the fact that after he got elected, he took that narrative and threw it out the window.

2008 was not a vote for Obama--it was a vote against Bush. Since then, the voters have realized they hate Obama just as much as they hated Bush,

You were right for the first paragraph, wrong on the second. I believe that people went out and voted not just against Bush in 2008, but also FOR that exact narrative that you talked about. Obama couldn't get nearly the level of donations, political volunteerism, or turnout from disaffected voters, without having a positive story to tell as well. That was the most grassrooty campaign in 40 years.

For several reasons, from self-inflicted political wounds, to Republican batspit craziness, he hasn't lived up to that promise, and thats why he's lost momentum. By and large though, the american people don't HATE Obama. Tea Partiers do, but Obama remains the single most popular player in Washington. His personal likability numbers are still fairly high too. Folks just don't think he's doing a great job.

 

[Laurencius]

I'm beginning to suspect depth of religious belief is the only real difference between the two main American parties.

I think you're onto something.

We're one step away from a one-party system: the capitalist pro-corporate party.

 

[Junius]

According to NY Times these items had relatively little impact on the growth of USA deficit

I'm speaking of long-term debt. A decade-plus out. We will have a lot more people retired and collecting SS and medicare and a lot fewer people working and paying into the system. Some reform will be needed.

 

[Junius]

There is a lot of movement in these numbers over the year so this isn't something he can't recover from, but the new poll numbers don't look great for Obama: http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-daily-obama-job-approval.aspx He is down to 39% nationally.

 

[wolfigor]

I'm speaking of long-term debt. A decade-plus out. We will have a lot more people retired and collecting SS and medicare and a lot fewer people working and paying into the system. Some reform will be needed.

I also posted a forecast of public US debt (up to 2019) if Bush tax cuts and other bills are not removed:

However all developed countries have the issue of aging population with decreasing number of active workers, not only USA.
To solve such a problem in the very long term we will need really innovative thinking an a complete restructure of our society... something quite out of scope for this thread.

 

[Junius]

However all developed countries have the issue of aging population with decreasing number of active workers, not only USA.
To solve such a problem in the very long term we will need really innovative thinking an a complete restructure of our society... something quite out of scope for this thread.

This problem is exactly what i'm talking about. It is certainly a problem elsewhere as well, probably moreso in Europe and Japan. My point is we shouldn't look on proposals to reform entitlements as political suicide. To do nothing is what we kill us in the decades to come.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I'm speaking of long-term debt. A decade-plus out. We will have a lot more people retired and collecting SS and medicare and a lot fewer people working and paying into the system. Some reform will be needed.

That problem has been well-known for over 40 years now. The baby boom is not exactly a secret. Yet Reagan deliberately used the increased SS funds collected to accommodate that gap to help pay for his own big government, and everybody has essentially ignored the problem ever since while using the SS fund to pay for even more big government.

 

[Ajidica]

This problem is exactly what i'm talking about. It is certainly a problem elsewhere as well, probably moreso in Europe and Japan. My point is we shouldn't look on proposals to reform entitlements as political suicide. To do nothing is what we kill us in the decades to come.

I think the problem with even bringing up entitlement reform now is that 'reform' has become a by-word for 'completely gut it'. I completely agree that the entitlement programs, along with many other programs, need some reform so they can better carry out their function. However, taking the current program and gutting it is in no way meaningful reform. Any problem can be dealt with in the short term by gutting it, but that is often a less then ideal solution long term.

 

[Cutlass]

I also posted a forecast of public US debt (up to 2019) if Bush tax cuts and other bills are not removed:

However all developed countries have the issue of aging population with decreasing number of active workers, not only USA.
To solve such a problem in the very long term we will need really innovative thinking an a complete restructure of our society... something quite out of scope for this thread.

The demographics problem is not as bad in the US as it is in most other developed nations. Most of that problem actually goes away if we control spiraling health care costs.

We don't need 'innovative thinking'. We need Universal Health Care and put the health care sector on a budget. We know exactly what we need to do. And none of it is radical or difficult. It is the politics which cause the problems. Not the situation.

 

[Singularity]

The demographics problem is not as bad in the US as it is in most other developed nations. Most of that problem actually goes away if we control spiraling health care costs.

We don't need 'innovative thinking'. We need Universal Health Care and put the health care sector on a budget. We know exactly what we need to do. And none of it is radical or difficult. It is the politics which cause the problems. Not the situation.

And what about the Bush era tax cuts? You know, the big orange blob on the graph.

 

[Cutlass]

And what about the Bush era tax cuts? You know, the big orange blob on the graph.

I've been harping on that forever. And quite frankly get tired of it. But in that post I was only answering the issue of demographics. Which is an issue. But it is not an issue of such great importance that it requires major changes or radical solutions. Hell, if demographics was the only problem, the US could solve it in a decade with immigration.

The primary demographics problem in the US is not demographics at all: It's the worsening health care sector problem. If the health care problem is solved, the demographics problem becomes minor adjustments, not radical rethinking.

So that is the answer to wolfigor's statement " To solve such a problem in the very long term we will need really innovative thinking an a complete restructure of our society... something quite out of scope for this thread."

 

[RobAnybody]

100,000 Japanese in prison for no reason ring a bell?

58,156 American deaths in Vietnam. 623,026 American deaths in the Civil War.

So, even if you even want to make a case for Japanese Internment Camps, the best I can agree to is:

Worst Things To Ever Happen To America
1 - Slavery
2 - Civil War
3 - Vietnam
4 - Duke Blue Devils
5 - Japanese Internment Camps

There's simply no way I can rate your submission higher than those other four.

 

[Formaldehyde]

After all, there is nothing really terrible about effectively imprisoning and ruining the lives of 110,000 innocent people for 4 years merely because their ancestors lived in a foreign country, just as there was nothing really wrong with creating propaganda that vilified all Japanese. That couldn't possibly have longstanding negative effects.

 

[Cutlass]

No one is saying FDR wasn't in the wrong there. And it was a large wrong. But in comparison to so many other things that have been done, it's fairly far down the list.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Not to the 110,000 victims who were deprived of their freedom and liberty for four years. If you don't think it is such a big deal, try not leaving your house for the next four years of your life.

 

[GamezRule]

We didn't need propaganda to vilify all Japanese. They did a good job of that on their own.

 

[wolfigor]

Hell, if demographics was the only problem, the US could solve it in a decade with immigration.

It will solve the problem temporary if at all.
In first we cannot be sure that the economy will expand to accommodate such immigration without large disruptions in the job market quality of life for the newcomers and locals alike.
Second, after one or maybe two generations you will get the same problem once again, just with a much larger population (i.e. we trade a problem today for a much larger problem tomorrow).

The primary demographics problem in the US is not demographics at all: It's the worsening health care sector problem. If the health care problem is solved, the demographics problem becomes minor adjustments, not radical rethinking.

A solutions like "Universal Health Care and put the health care sector on a budget" is a radical re-thinking in USA, that will involve putting the needs of people in front of the needs of corporations.
A well appointed Universal Health care will have to leverage its size to get the best deals when contracting medical care and supply of medicines.
It may even nationalise the production of key supplies and the ownership of patents.


Anyway this thread is about Obama.
He promised a complete reform of the health system... but what was the practical result of his effort?
In my view it was extremely far from the expectations of his voters and far away from that the USA needs.

He also did not remove the main items of cost in the budget (e.g. tax cuts)