What if your race is the dumbest of them all?

[Gori the Grey]

You never proposed comparing IQ tests?

 

[Lexicus]

You never proposed comparing IQ tests?

I don't believe IQ tests demonstrate anything particularly meaningful. Plus I've never taken a real one, only a few online ones.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

It may be worth noting that Asians were stereotyped as being especially stupid, much dumber even than the recently freed African-American slaves

Makes sense to me. Traditionally, and from the eyes of a Western dude, Asians have this servant-ish politeness to them, and that can, sub-consciously at least, look like a big sign reading INFERIOR PLZ DONT HURT ME. Moreover, to not assert yourself actually and quite naturally does make you less smart in a social context, if other participants run differently.
But in school, this serving culture turns into pleasing teachers and parents, out-classing Western dudes.
(culture is messy and take those musings of mine with some salty salt)
-------------------------

All this thread tought me so far is that genetic reasearch is still in its infancy and we need a lot of better work to get anywhere.
Incidentlly someone already told me that, in this thread.
edit: found it:

My alternative is: Don't bother. Certainly this decade and probably a couple more. It's wasted energy because there is so much basic groundwork needing covered.

Yet with such hostile attitudes towards this kind of avenue of research, how?

 

[Hrothbern]

Asians have this servant-ish politeness to them, and that can, sub-consciously at least, look like a big sign reading INFERIOR PLZ DONT HURT ME.

Yes and smile
If a Japanese offers me his business card, the card between thumb and forefinger of both hands, both palm up... by the very gesture the little bow coming parallel
Instead of "our" usual giving a card with one hand

I really read the signal of someone coming close to me offering a "present":
"Hey, I have no dagger in my other hand"

The more ferocious a culture can be, the more vulnerable for insults and loss of face, the more the need for politeness.
The more a culture is a cast system, the more politeness you can expect.

Just like up to Renaissance main stream Sumerian->Western court culture had: never turn your back when you walk away from a high ranking person, in order not to insult, and not to hide grabbing your weapon.
And really... how much has changed regarding that politeness disguising violence ?

John Lennon's "Working class hero" is (for me) still so true in describing "his" British cast/class environment, meanwhile a global upper 1%.

"As soon as you're born they make you feel small
By giving you no time instead of it all
Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

They hurt you at home and they hit you at school
They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool
Till you're so fudging crazy you can't follow their rules
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

When they've tortured and scared you for twenty-odd years
Then they expect you to pick a career
When you can't really function you're so full of fear
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and classless and free
But you're still fudging peasants as far as I can see
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

There's room at the top they're telling you still
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
If you want to be like the folks on the hill

A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be
If you want to be a hero well just follow me
If you want to be a hero well just follow me"

 

[Traitorfish]

Makes sense to me. Traditionally, and from the eyes of a Western dude, Asians have this servant-ish politeness to them, and that can, sub-consciously at least, look like a big sign reading INFERIOR PLZ DONT HURT ME. Moreover, to not assert yourself actually and quite naturally does make you less smart in a social context, if other participants run differently.

But, equally, the Irish were stereotyped as aggressive and stupid, while Germans and Scandinavians were stereotyped as stubborn and stupid.

I think it's more probable that racists simply start with the assumption that difference necessarily indicates inferiority or pathology, and spin whatever tales are necessary to make it work.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

A lot of (stupid) people also assume that the inability to speak proper English is a sure sign of stupidity, no matter how many other languages one might speak well.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

@Hrothbern
Good post.
However, your poem stinks of the typical flaw its originator stinks of: not only blatant but dumb hypocrisy. A silly trope, at this point. Which is to romanticize the poor. Surely they will struggle to adapt to the cultural norms of upper classes, and surely, this will solidify their class, very unfairly.
But all those sins mentioned, all the defiance of virtue - those are reserved to the privileged, alien to the poor? That is a common theme. And commonly and rightfully ridiculed as a silly trope, IMO. As silly as the trope of hero of light defeating the army of darkness.
Poverty does not breed virtue, in general. But I concede, truly personal connections do.

But, equally, the Irish were stereotyped as aggressive and stupid, while Germans and Scandinavians were stereotyped as stubborn and stupid.

I think it's more probable that racists simply start with the assumption that difference necessarily indicates inferiority or pathology, and spin whatever tales are necessary to make it work.

Certainly, that tendency is a thing.
Is it all, as you seem to suggest?
As a staunch leftists, but not a rigid romanticist of whatever kind, surely you are ready to recognize that the human mind and his or her culture is a phenomena of chaos and contradiction, a subject to such interfacies that it boggles the reasoning mind.
And in that spirit, surely you won't have us seek refuge from such turmoil in idealistic folk tales of the good and bad.
Will you?
.... Enough for the game. No. It is not all. Seek your own experience to find that. To find the patterns I speak of. And many others. Yes, it is much. Maybe that is all you needed to say. I agree. Or is there something not said but to you implicit and I so far failed to recognize?
Is it perhaps, that you have marked me as the enemy, and feel the need to carry the point of racism to me like a banner?

 

[caketastydelish]

Spoiler :

John Lennon's "Working class hero" is (for me) still so true in describing "his" British cast/class environment, meanwhile a global upper 1%.

"As soon as you're born they make you feel small
By giving you no time instead of it all
Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

They hurt you at home and they hit you at school
They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool
Till you're so ******* crazy you can't follow their rules
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

When they've tortured and scared you for twenty-odd years
Then they expect you to pick a career
When you can't really function you're so full of fear
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and classless and free
But you're still ******* peasants as far as I can see
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

There's room at the top they're telling you still
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
If you want to be like the folks on the hill

A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be
If you want to be a hero well just follow me
If you want to be a hero well just follow me"

John Lennon was a jackass, a charlatan, and a hypocrite. I'm glad he's dead, he got what he deserved. Screw Yoko as well.

 

[Hrothbern]

John Lennon was a jackass, a charlatan, and a hypocrite. I'm glad he's dead, he got what he deserved. Screw Yoko as well.

all the literature and poetry of hypocrites to be burned at the stake to purify it ?

 

[caketastydelish]

Fair enough.

 

[Traitorfish]

Certainly, that tendency is a thing.
Is it all, as you seem to suggest?
As a staunch leftists, but not a rigid romanticist of whatever kind, surely you are ready to recognize that the human mind and his or her culture is a phenomena of chaos and contradiction, a subject to such interfacies that it boggles the reasoning mind.
And in that spirit, surely you won't have us seek refuge from such turmoil in idealistic folk tales of the good and bad.
Will you?
.... Enough for the game. No. It is not all. Seek your own experience to find that. To find the patterns I speak of. And many others. Yes, it is much. Maybe that is all you needed to say. I agree. Or is there something not said but to you implicit and I so far failed to recognize?
Is it perhaps, that you have marked me as the enemy, and feel the need to carry the point of racism to me like a banner?

Eh?

I just meant that it's not really worth the effort trying to find a rationale in racist stereotypes, at least not ones so broad as low intelligence. Uncharitable people will tend to assume that anyone different from them is stupid or foolish, and will rationalise it only when that assumption is challenged. The Chinese is stupid because he is too polite, the Irishman because he is too rude. The German is stupid because he is too reserved, the Italian because he is too expressive. The only constant is the racists assumption that difference is always evidence of inferiority.

You don't some long-dead bigot the favour of trying to make sense of his prejudices.

 

[Disgustipated]

I have a related anecdote. When I first moved to DC I lived with four black guys who went to Howard, two of whom were Nigerian immigrants, pretty clearly from relatively well-off families. Both of those guys were studying engineering and I got the feeling they were a lot smarter than me.

speaking of Nigerian immigrants, I find the opportunity to plug this video. May not what you consider traditionally high IQ, but this guy is amazing.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

I don't like determinism because it is pretty much the best way to ruin someones motivation. What is the point in trying if you can't be good?

Instead of giving up because of scoring low on an iq test or whatever else, work better and work smarter. Motivation is in the head, determinism is the easy way but in the end the wrong way.

 

[zxcvbob]

What if your race is the dumbest of them all?

Then people will underestimate me. That's not a bad thing.