What is that violet-white civ on the mini map down there?

The point is that they seem to have used that particular version as on Wikipedia as a colour source. To get such a perfect match by chance is on the same level as winning the lottery in terms of pure chance.

I agree with you. I was addressing someone who said Firaxis needs to put more effort into picking the colors. I responded that they got pretty close to that flag even if all they did was go with the wikipedia version.

FWIW, I think the non-wikipedia flag is faded, which also explains why the purple is more of a blue. Not that this really matters overall.
 
Venice may as well be confirmed.

I think this statement is important, in that the distinction between it and the statement 'Venice is confirmed' is probably useful to remember. There is certainly exceptionally strong evidence, but I think for most people confirmation and proof involve a civ being named in a press preview.
 
Venice has this going for it:
Venice as a city-state is gone
European civilization is confirmed
Exact match of a small part of Venice's flag (on wiki; but Fireaxis has shown to be somewhat lazy) matches new civilization's colors.
The capital in the image is extremely cultured and Venice would, without a doubt in my mind, get a capital UA bonus. The bonus would most likely be culture-related (it was a city-state)
One of the few remaining European civs that is alphabetically between Portugal and Zulu.
The only remaining European civ that has connection to culture and international trade which are big parts of the expansion. Visigoths and Vandals both have nothing to add to BNW and are not known to be fan favorites like the Zulu.

This is my problem with the theories summed up in one nutshell.

1) We do not know Venice is gone. What we have is solid evidence that another CS has it's color scheme which probably means its gone. This is actually the most solid evidence given that it means something has happened to Venice and on the occasions in the past this has happened it's indicated replacement.
2) The colors are not an exact match - they are extremely close but not exact. The flag spoken about is anything but the most commonly represented Venitian flag. Whilst I agree with Menzies analysis and hypothesis here the evidence is purely circumstantial.
3) Whilst it's possible Venice has culture bonuses this is pure speculation.
4) Venice fits the assumption that the two remaining civs are between Por and Zul - we assume the achievement list is alphabetical. Again it's the most likely scenario but not a known fact.
5) We were already told Portugal was the Euro trade civ. Venice has little to do with Ideology and that is being added as well. Italian areas definitely fit as culturally strong states but as we know any civ can appear as a Tall civ on a minimap if thats the way the game played out.

I think Venice is in and I think the evidence you present is probably right but when people throw in words like "exact" and "we know" based on assumptions and theories then we open ourselves up to terrible errors in judgement.

What we have is a very strong hypothesis based on some good analysis from people like Menzies but what we dont have is any solid factual evidence.

I think 90% is the right number for Venice on a huge weight of circumstantial evidence but to rule out all other possibilities on what we have is a mistake. If we had even one solid fact to base our speculation on I'd call it a lock.

No other possibility like Visigoths, Vandals, Tatars, Ukraine or any other choice has anything more than a speculative case so I think the "field" of all other choices is 10%.

I think 90% on a lot of purely circumstantial evidence and some sound theories is a fair estimate.

I fully expect Venice to be in I just have an issue with people making assumptions and calling them facts.
 
BTW what is the colour of Rome?

If I'm not mistaken, purple was an imperial colour to Rome.
 
This is my problem with the theories summed up in one nutshell.
[Wall of text]
I fully expect Venice to be in I just have an issue with people making assumptions and calling them facts.

That's actually what you post in a nutshell.

BTW what is the colour of Rome?

If I'm not mistaken, purple was an imperial colour to Rome.

rome.png


Seriously. It actually in this site. Look at the left part Main Page of the site. :facepalm:
 
One I made earlier:
*ŝnip*

I don't know, although all the evidence is pretty conclusive if I was the person making Venice I would never want to give them colours so close to Rome's.

Hmmm... Could you use the symbol on the purple part of the flag? If they are choosing those colors, it's most probable they would use that symbol...

Also, to see how it would look like, could you change the colors on your symbol to these?

I'll give you a cookie for your troubles...
Thanks! :p
 
Also, to see how it would look like, could you change the colors on your symbol to these?

I'll give you a cookie for your troubles...
Thanks! :p

Like this?

path3088.png


I don't know, I would have still thought that was a reasonable combination. I know it's similar to France, but there are plenty of Civs who have similar colour combinations and as long as they weren't the exact same shade of blue they should stand out.
 
Exactly!
It just seems really weird they would choose the round purple symbol when that is the most recognizable, and obvious, symbol and color scheme for Venice (right next to the Red and Gold, but that was already taken).

The blue is similar to France's, but so is Sweden's to America's, and the Gold is quite different from France's Beige. There are a lot of other civilizations that share background color and have similar foreground color: Greece and Portugal, for one.

It just seems... wrong to choose White on Purple for Venice, when this is a much better option! And they can't really say they went with Purple to avoid confusin with France, since the White on Purple can be confused with Rome.

This all seems so weird... :sad: The only way I see for them to choose the Purple one is if the other unannounced civilization uses the Gold on Light Blue for theirs...
This is the closest I can see for a possible Gold on Light Blue that is not Venice (and for them, an inverse Celts using the leafs on the bottom would be better!).


Here's you cookie, by the way!
 

I have long ago accepted that Venice or Italy is pretty likely to be in - my issue is that people are stating things as facts when they aren't. They are good speculation based on solid assumptions but that doesn't make those things facts. It's a strong circumstantial case but if it was a court of law a decent lawyer would tear all the arguments apart as supposition. The moment we see an actual piece of hard evidence then I'll call it a lock but at the moment the closest we have is Menzies CS analysis which I believe to be correct but is based on such a small data set that it cannot be considered a certainty just highly likely. All those circumstantial elements add up to a compelling case for Venice but none are actually certain to be hard facts.
 
ALLOW ME TO PUT MY TINFOIL HAT ON:

The European Civ is Italian States, for whose city list Venice features high. They took the purple and cream off of the flag to represent Italy (it is close to Rome's colours) while not being wholly and singularly representative of Venice. Venice is off the City states to be in the city list, but not Ragusa, who would feature highly on Venice's city list but not that of the Italian States. ALL EXPLAINED. BOOM.

Seriously though, I think it will be a Venice Civ. Not a maritime trade civ, but rather a civ with massive bonuses to the capital.
 
I also second JSMGAG. Aqua/Gold is actually better combination compared to Purple/White shown on screenshot. Yes, It's similar to some civ but it's have to be the case where you try to make everyone differentiate 50+ shade of colors. (Thinking that it's background that matter)

It's now seem plausible that they actually use Aqua/Gold for Venice civ and intentionally use that mix of Purple/White to distract someone, particularly Menzies, or they thought the mix of Purple/White is better? (Not until they saw Martin's logo, hopefully)

@alpha2117
[Another wall of text]

or, in a nutshell.

... I fully expect Venice to be in I just have an issue with people making assumptions and calling them facts.

or did I misinterpreted your post?
 
Exactly!
It just seems really weird they would choose the round purple symbol when that is the most recognizable, and obvious, symbol and color scheme for Venice (right next to the Red and Gold, but that was already taken).

Yes, this bothers me too.

This all seems so weird... :sad: The only way I see for them to choose the Purple one is if the other unannounced civilization uses the Gold on Light Blue for theirs...
This is the closest I can see for a possible Gold on Light Blue that is not Venice (and for them, an inverse Celts using the leafs on the bottom would be better!).

Interesting...

Another possibility is that they're not adding a Native American Civ at all and are in fact adding Venice and Ukraine :crazyeye:
 
ALLOW ME TO PUT MY TINFOIL HAT ON:

The European Civ is Italian States, for whose city list Venice features high. They took the purple and cream off of the flag to represent Italy (it is close to Rome's colours) while not being wholly and singularly representative of Venice. Venice is off the City states to be in the city list, but not Ragusa, who would feature highly on Venice's city list but not that of the Italian States. ALL EXPLAINED. BOOM.

Seriously though, I think it will be a Venice Civ. Not a maritime trade civ, but rather a civ with massive bonuses to the capital.

AND THE ALPHABET METHODE WAS JUST A DIVERSION CREATED BY FIRAXIS FOR A EFFECT OF SUPRISE WHEN THEY ANOUNCE ITALY, TO COMPENSATE FOR THE FACT THAT ONE OF THE ACHIEVEMENTS MENTIONED ITALY.

but no seriously, I would absolutely LOVE a Italian states civ, but I don't think it's going to be.

(Ahh crap I lost my tinfoil hat during my last abduction) :scan:
 
The only way I see for them to choose the Purple one is if the other unannounced civilization uses the Gold on Light Blue for theirs...
This is the closest I can see for a possible Gold on Light Blue that is not Venice (and for them, an inverse Celts using the leafs on the bottom would be better!).

Very interesting theory! Yellow and cyan was already taken by the Shawnee so they had to find another set of colors for Venice, and ended up with purple-white from some obscure Venetian flag.
 
But Milan is a CS.

a few possible explanations:

1) the exception that proves the rule
2) they are including most important italian cities but not all so that there are still City states representing the area
3) this theory was not particularly well thought out

choose your favourite
 
You cut that out right now.

But surely we can all agree that the one thing the game is lacking is MOAR EUROPEAN CIVS!!! :lol:
 
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