What is the US up to with regard to Iran?

[AmazonQueen]

Its not just the usual suspects who are worried and puzzled by current US actions towards Iran.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/edit...ould-be-a-disaster/ar-AABrwha?ocid=spartandhp

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...aq-says-top-british-officer-in-defiance-of-us

Help me understand what the Trump administration thinks it can achieve.

 

[Berzerker]

bluffing them into another deal

 

[tamyrlin]

Who would want to strike a deal with Trump of all people.

Thanks to Trump, nations will be afraid to enter any deal with US government.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Trash sources aside, we'll see if this turns into a false flag or something. Probably not. Allegedly Iran was seen loading missiles onto small craft, though other countries also load missiles onto craft.

What we're looking to accomplish in the middle east has been a valid question since before I was born. That certainly hasn't changed now.

 

[Farm Boy]

NPR had the ambassador on earlier today. If I had to guess something something about a drone strike on a Saudi pipeline and some threat regarding shipping in the Strait of Hormuz. No clue.

Personally, if I was an aspiring nuclear power, I'd have stopped trusting us when we helped France kill Ghaddafi. There's no reason to disarm, Europe from the Atlantic all the way to Russia has been more than happy to show what the reward will be, and the US is happy to back them up do it on own own. Non-proliferation died in Libya.

 

[Berzerker]

Who would want to strike a deal with Trump of all people.

Thanks to Trump, nations will be afraid to enter any deal with US government.

Iran and N Korea

 

[Lexicus]

Do you honestly still think there was an actual deal with North Korea?

 

[Berzerker]

they want to make a deal

 

[Lexicus]

they want to make a deal

Did Kimmy tell you himself?

 

[sophie]

they want to make a deal

North Korea doesn't want a deal. They want the prestige and legitimacy which comes from being treated as a sovereign state by the US. The "deal" itself is irrelevant, which is why North Korea has, by all accounts, entirely disregarded the terms of the "deal".

As to Iran, why would they want to make a deal, when future presidents can tear up the terms of any deal on a whim, and when the US as a whole has demonstrated that good-faith acting on the part of "pariah-states" counts for nothing and the US is happy to intervene and depose foreign governments irrespective of prior deals. Every despot who has made a deal with the US to willingly disarm has ended up invaded, dead, deposed, or all three.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Iran and N Korea

They made a deal with the US. They kept to their side of it. The US withdrew from it.
How does that help Iranian moderates like Rouhani argue for a deal with the US?
How does the presence of hawks like Bolton encourage Iranians and others to believe this is anything other than an attempt to provoke a war?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Trump doesn't want a deal. He wants enough conflict so that he doesn't look like a sissy. He is willing for Americans to die for that.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Do you honestly still think there was an actual deal with North Korea?

I wouldn't rule it out, but if so it wouldn't be the deal we've been led to believe publicly.

 

[Ironsided]

Judging by overwhelming evidence the "axis of evil" in regards to global safety is not so much NK and Iran as its America and Israel.

 

[Dekker]

War. We are going to do some bombing, launch some rockets and then send some boys to kill a bunch of people and die, for some stupid reason, while Saudi sits back and laughs.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Judging by overwhelming evidence the "axis of evil" in regards to global safety is not so much NK and Iran as its America and Israel.

America and Israel are not global threats. Even USA, which has the military capability to do crazy stuff, is mostly a threat to countries that struggle to fight things outside their own borders. Weak countries with resources in particular.

Israel has never managed a serious presence outside its immediate surroundings.

EU's trash policies and China's maneuvering/social credit dystopia are probably more threatening to areas of the world that can at least fight back a little vs total war, which the US hasn't engaged in earnest since WW2.

 

[Ironsided]

America and Israel are not global threats. Even USA, which has the military capability to do crazy stuff, is mostly a threat to countries that struggle to fight things outside their own borders. Weak countries with resources in particular.

Top logic I'm sure.

 

[Lexicus]

EU's trash policies and China's maneuvering/social credit dystopia are probably more threatening to areas of the world that can at least fight back a little vs total war, which the US hasn't engaged in earnest since WW2.

You are aware that we dropped more bombs on SE Asia than were dropped by all the combatants during the entirety of World War II? We bombed North Korea until there were no targets left, killing an estimated one million people.

If WW2 is your standard for total war that standard was actually exceeded by subsequent US wars...

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Top logic I'm sure.

I'm just going off of actual activity from 1940's until now. Has the US challenged countries with large scale military in conventional warfare? No. Has it systematically gone for targets of opportunity in non-total war scenarios against otherwise overmatched nations?

Yes. It has done that specifically, many times. And who is it posturing against now, yet again?

You are aware that we dropped more bombs on SE Asia than were dropped by all the combatants during the entirety of World War II? We bombed North Korea until there were no targets left, killing an estimated one million people.

If WW2 is your standard for total war that standard was actually exceeded by subsequent US wars...

I was more referring to % of resources mobilized and effort to fully occupy the territories. Korea and Vietnam were atrocities in numerous ways. I don't mean to sell that short, but these clearly weren't conflicts where the USA was willing to go all out. Modern ventures into the middle east resemble them in some ways.

Only deal I could see NK going for is some kind of hedge against/info on/relations involving China.

 

[Berzerker]

Did Kimmy tell you himself?

He's been telling the world, thats why we're negotiating with him

They don't want a deal. They want the prestige and legitimacy which comes from being treated as a sovereign state by the US. The "deal" itself is irrelevant, which is why North Korea has, by all accounts, entirely refused to abide by its terms.

As to Iran, why would they want to make a deal, when future presidents can tear up the terms of any deal on a whim, and when the US as a whole has demonstrated that good-faith acting on the part of "pariah-states" counts for nothing and the US is happy to intervene and depose foreign governments on a whim, irrespective of prior deals. Every despot who has made a deal with the US to willingly disarm has ended up invaded, dead, deposed, or all three.

They want deals because sanctions hurt. N Korea has a large military with China and Russia on its border, we are not attacking them whether they have nukes or not. Our presence is a tripwire to discourage an invasion but is used to 'justify' a police state. I think we should just give nukes to the south and let them talk peace.

They made a deal with the US. They kept to their side of it. The US withdrew from it. How does that help Iranian moderates like Rouhani argue for a deal with the US? How does the presence of hawks like Bolton encourage Iranians and others to believe this is anything other than an attempt to provoke a war?

Trump doesn't want a deal. He wants enough conflict so that he doesn't look like a sissy. He is willing for Americans to die for that.

That wasn't Trump's deal, he was elected to make new deals. Bolton is the bluff, Trump hired a warmonger to scare other countries. He's the "Beware of Dog" sign on a fence with a hole in it. Bolton rattles the sword and Trump says "let's talk". Yes, he wants to appear tough, thats why he hired Bolton. Trump has admitted he has to moderate him, thats the good cop bad cop routine.

The only conflict he didn't inherit is the trade war and even many Democrats concede he's addressing a real problem with trade. I think you're misreading his motives, he's a deal maker and war is bad for his business. Less than 2 months before we invaded Iraq he was on Fox w/Neil Cavuto telling the President to focus on the economy and let the UN deal with Iraq.