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What is your tech choosing order?
- Thread starter Emperor Giulio
- Start date
metatheory
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2010
- Messages
- 69
Sword rushes usually involve some variant of tech progression that emphasizes Iron working. Usually you have a settler ready to go so as soon as Iron Working is researched and Iron is discovered, the settler establishes a city near or on an Iron node. Then both cities pump out swordsman and rush the nearest civ.
HideInLight
Warlord
I usually start with Agriculture.
elthrasher
Revcaster
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2009
- Messages
- 712
You aren't able to build libraries? Did you research Writing?
Bobafett0610
Warlord
i got chitzen itza while playing persia on diety. I simply beelined NC then went straight to researching Civil Service. Grabbed tradition and aristocracy. Once I got the tech I had capital focus production and build the chitzen itza. All of this while holding off a massive attack from the iroquis. It's very difficult but doable and its also a very hit or miss lots of luck type of deal. Ive had games were i played egypt, started with great production tiles, marble, and gunned for stonehinge right away and grabbed tradition and aristocracy. And arabia still beat me to the wonder by more then just a few turns. And they had all floodplains and insense/sugar but no production tiles, no marble, and no aristoracy. This has happend more then a few times so it's proof that they need to scale egypts ability based on diff lvl. As on higher diff lvls it really is worthless as the massive boosts ai get toward production make a 20% bonus towards wonders seem like nothing. Not to mention they get the techs a whole lot earlier so they can start building wonders before you.
LOL Nice
HideInLight
Warlord
The very early wonders are quite a gamble, then later on as long as you are not behind in science, just get the necessary tech first and you should get the wonder if u have a solid production city.
If you need some late game wonder 100%, just have an engineer ready when it gets available.
From my experience, it is very hard to get Great Library, Great Lighthouse, Collosus and Hanging Gardens, AI usually builds those pretty fast.
Stonehenge is usually quite easy if u rush for it, the same with Pyramids. Chicken Itza is quite tough, you need to get Civil Service via an early RA.
Later on if your science is good you should be able to get the necessary tech first with beelining for it and RA's.
AfterShafter
Deity
I usually start researching archery and building a worker, then building an archer upon completing the worker. By this point my warrior has wandered a bit and based on the landscape, who's around me and their proximity, what happiness resources I have available, etc, I'll either start towards a tech that lets me work an appropriate happiness resource (calendar if I have any say in it, and I'll sometimes make a stonehenge grab), and after that either go iron working if I think I'm going to be warlike relatively early, or up towards philosophy if I'm thinking my position will allow for a more expansionist approach.
It's all flexible though, and sometimes I see something off the bat that makes me change my ways.
It's all flexible though, and sometimes I see something off the bat that makes me change my ways.
Lobsterdore
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2010
- Messages
- 2
I normally go for an all out military rush at the beginning of the game. So I usually go straight for BW then IW, all the while I build warriors non stop till I have 5-6, after that I'll go and get writing plus all the resource techs. With my warriors I will upgrade them to swordsmen asap, then longswordmen when I get the tech. I can usually demolish 2-3 ai players early on, I'm on emperor difficulty at the mo. I normally get iron through an annex'd city or a city state.
Emperor Giulio
King
This is what I am contemplating as a strategy for my next game. I will warrior rush while teching BW and IW, so I can upgrade my warrior through the spoils of war. I want to eliminate all of the rivals on the continent as fast as possible. Thereafter, I can focus heavily on science with the library/NC initiative.
Because my goal is continental supremacy, followed by being the leader of the world in science. For me, once I have control of half the world, I feel it gives me the liberty to choose how I want to win the game thereafter.
Sorry for the lack of clarity. I didn't explain many of the strategies, since I wanted my post to be easily reviewable and clear, as to the techs, if not the reasons why.
RA = research agreement
SP = social policy
UU = unique unit
sword rush = preferably 4+ swordsmen at turn 35 or earlier (on quick) More preferably, turn 30 or earlier (much harder to achieve).
To do expansion before national college and still get national college on time, the last city to be built needs to immediately make a library, while using its highest production hex (usually a plains hill). This city is the bottleneck for the entire empire, since I expect it to have the lowest production.
While its doing this, and it might take 14 turns to make the library, the first 2 cities may make a warrior, worker, watermill, or granary (whichever is most applicable to situation... need ancient ruin for watermill to be an option). Usually a worker or warrior.
Its especially effective with Russia because 2nd/3rd cities will usually have horses, which means that they can get to 6 production without improving tiles. (2/2 horse + 0/2 hill, or 1/3 horse + 1/1 plains) This is a big advantage over other civilizations that can easily have 4 (0/2 hill) or 5 (2/1 wheat + 0/2 hill). Especially impressive are Russian cities with 2 horses, which can get to 8!! production (1/3 + 1/3) without improvements).
Make sure that all cities finish the library at the same time, to be synchronized. Then, capital builds national college, and you have 2 extra cities with decent production. (If they don't have decent production, you should not have built them or have placed them in the wrong location... production is the point of cities 2/3).
Emphasize improving the capitals tiles or cut trees (if have mining) by wherever library bottleneck is with workers to improve national college speed. Building pasture is only way to improve production before mining.
If you have a lot of gold, you can instead synchronize the first 2 libraries and buy the third. Or you can synchronize all 3 and buy workers.
For a 3 city NC, one city needs to be placed on a luxury or a very early worker needs to be built/acquired somehow, to improve luxury.
Preferred city sizes:
(2city NC, needs 0 quick luxuries)
Capital:3
2nd city:2
(3city NC, needs 1 quick luxury)
Capital: 3
2nd city: 2
3rd city: 1
or (4city NC strategy, needs 2 quick luxuries with 1 tech (like ivory + silver if you research trapping as your luxury tech... its ok if you have to wait until mining to acquire 2nd.))
Capital: 3
2nd: 2
3rd: 2
4th: 1
Preferred early tiles for use:
1. With russia: any horse
2. With 2nd city -> 3/0 tile until size 2, then max production (1/2 tiles most favorable).
3. With 3rd city -> 1/2 or 0/2 tile immediately until library is complete.
I only recommend Liberty -> NC if planning 4 cities or more before NC, to keep NC at a reasonable time. This is most applicable to France, who gets Liberty before first settler.
To clarify how to build settlers:
Build order for capital =
2city NC:
Capital:
Scout
Settler
Something (warrior, worker, granary, watermill, etc)
Library
NC
2nd city:
Library
3city NC:
Capital:
Scout
Settler
Settler
Something
Library
2nd city:
Something
Library
3rd city:
Library
4city NC:
Capital:
Scout
Settler
Settler
Settler
2nd city:
Something
Something (only if high enough production)
Library
3rd city:
Something
Library
4th city:
Library
Is this a lot clearer? Make sure your new cities are making at least 4 hammers per turn. Only use a 2/0 tile in the case that you can soon use 2 1/2 tiles.
Math behind this:
1/2 tile for 10 turns -> 40 total production, then 6/turn
2/0 tiles for 5 turns -> 10 total production
2 1/2 tiles for 5 turns -> 30 total production, then 6/turn
Equivalent hammers, but 5 more beakers overall for growing first. This only applies if you have 2 1/2 tiles to use.
Additionally, you actually do better if you have a 1/2, 1/2, 3/0 and use the 3/0 to grow, then switch to the 2 1/2s. (Of course 3/0, 1/2, 1/2, 1/1 makes an additional hammer per turn, but it is hard to get to size 4).
In fact, for the entire game try to have twice as many hammers/turn as the #2 player, and you are sure to win, since the hammer lead + keeping up with tech (because of NC) makes you unstoppable.
The only risk is the Liberty no-NC expanders who will outproduce you greatly (maybe by as much as 50%-100% if you have a bad start). Best advice as NC player w/ bad start is try to use diplomacy with other players to ally against the high-score Liberty no-NC expander. This usually works, since everyone fears the #1 score player. Alternatively, try to ally with the score-leader in hopes that his first attack will not be directed at you (and you will hopefully get longswords before he turns on you).
After library, 2nd city may build Great Library or Stonehenge *only* if you expect nobody else to be building it (based on civ choices, player chat, score increase rate of other players ie settlement rate).
2 or 3 city NC with 2nd city building library -> Great Library (Civil Service) is probably the strongest teching build, but very hard to achieve [Great Library is a highly favored wonder among players and yours will be 10-12 turns late.] Sometimes, 2nd city can build stonehenge b4 library, if doing 3-4 city and 2nd has good production, or maybe built on marble, which lets capital build NC w/ aristocracy later.
This case is one of the best. If i go AH-mining-Pottery-Writing i usually have time to build my 3rd city and start a library. Most of the time an happy mine is close enough to be settled. This is what i can do with some natural wonders discovered (1-2).
Capital : 4
2nd city : 3
3rd city : 3
For satellites cities a pop 3 city can have nice production. Going to 4 is too long. But capital at 4 pop generate 2 more science and i will probably finish library before other cities and concentrate on a prebuilded settler while i go straight for IW. If 3rd city struggle to finish his library i send a worker to chop a forest. When all libraries are built, i start NC in capital. When IW is discovered, i finish the settler prebuilded at 1 or 2 turns left. While NC is going to be finished, i send the settler to an Iron spot unless i got some in my actual land.
Obviously, i wait NC to be done before settle. No turns are wasted with good coordination.
A city staying at 1 pop is not optimal. It takes very few turns to let grow at 2 pop. The scale from 2 to 3 is important enough to let him at 2 pop and produce library with stagnant grow. A city with 2F/1H and a 0F/2H tile produce enough hammers to finish library fast enough without chopping.
Yes, 2/1 -> 2/1+ 0/2 better than just 0/2 for maximizing production in third city.
It is equal to 1/2 -> 1/2+1/1, hammer wise, though 5 beakers better.
3/0 -> 1/2 + 1/2 is best.
1/2 -> 1/2 + 1/2 is 2nd best.
Both of these are superior to 3/0 hexes, unless 3/0 + 1/2 + 0/2 can be achieved.
Sometimes 3rd city has no 2/1 or 1/2 hexes, however, in which case it is best to stay at size 1, rather than lose hammers by growing to size 2.
City sizes are rule of thumb, not absolute. It is based on what hexes are available. Maximizing hammers is absolute. There is no point trying to make occasional extra beakers at the expense of hammers when 1 extra turn of NC will more than make up the difference.
I must be unlucky to not find such places for my 3rd city. I will keep a fish, a floodplain wheat or a cow tile spot to let him grow in 4 turns then work the 2 best hammer tiles while stagnant. 2nd city doesnt need absolutely this kind of spot. In worse cases, i will spot one with lot of forests around and chop 2-3 of them in 6-8 turns.
I don't always get them either. Sometimes just a luxury next to a hill is all you can get, then settle on the luxury. Its rare to get a luxury next to some nice 1/2 or 2/1 hexes.
I also will prefer to give my 2nd city the best spot, then my 3rd the 2nd best spot. While NC might be a bit slower because of harder synchonization, I will get more hammers and get something extra out of 2nd city.
I also will prefer to give my 2nd city the best spot, then my 3rd the 2nd best spot. While NC might be a bit slower because of harder synchonization, I will get more hammers and get something extra out of 2nd city.
muskokan
Chieftain
thank you for that clarification Smote, as for you Tabarnak, merci bien. Am looking forward to trying both of these approaches in my next few games.
MadDjinn
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
- Messages
- 4,554
Are you guys even playing the same game?
Getting the GL is easy on deity. Only 1-2/10 attempts is there an AI that will get it.
tech path - Mining, Pottery, Writing
post-Writing -
Either up to trapping/philosophy for CS OR
up to optics for Compass OR
philosophy/calendar for Theology OR
try to tech to IW in time for Metal Casting, but that sometimes doesn't work out.
getting both the GL and The Oracle is a bit harder, but possible if you have some trees around and get Aristocracy. Marble close by rarely helps as you'll spend the time going to a tech you didn't need yet. (ruins sometimes help with this though)
getting the GS generator started (GL+Oracle) is fairly important if you want a speed bulb race. Getting that + stonehenge/pyramids in a 2nd city (for GEs) is a bit harder.
Getting the GL is easy on deity. Only 1-2/10 attempts is there an AI that will get it.
tech path - Mining, Pottery, Writing
post-Writing -
Either up to trapping/philosophy for CS OR
up to optics for Compass OR
philosophy/calendar for Theology OR
try to tech to IW in time for Metal Casting, but that sometimes doesn't work out.
getting both the GL and The Oracle is a bit harder, but possible if you have some trees around and get Aristocracy. Marble close by rarely helps as you'll spend the time going to a tech you didn't need yet. (ruins sometimes help with this though)
getting the GS generator started (GL+Oracle) is fairly important if you want a speed bulb race. Getting that + stonehenge/pyramids in a 2nd city (for GEs) is a bit harder.
MadDjinn
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
- Messages
- 4,554
Are you playing duel with only 2-3 civs?
Gl can be built before you can get writing!
I only play huge deity maps.
It's all about streamlining.
I only play huge deity maps.
It's all about streamlining.
Strong claims require strong evidence.
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