What is your understanding of Satan?

[puglover]

Satan is probably just like us humans, only bigger. He's just as cruel, just as self-righteous, just as flawed, just as weak. I don't fear him as long as God protects me.

 

[GenMarshall]

Satan is just a fallen angel who rebelled against God.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Satan is just a fallen angel who rebelled against God.

Hmmm youd have to be pretty stupid to rebel against God. Particularly when youre Lucifer, his right hand man, and know fully well that God is all knowing and all powerful, and you that have no chance of winning. So then lets stop calling poor Lucifer evil, because he isnt, he's just very very dumb.

 

[Lotus49]

Hmmm youd have to be pretty stupid to rebel against God. Particularly when youre Lucifer, his right hand man, and know fully well that God is all knowing and all powerful, and you that have no chance of winning. So then lets stop calling poor Lucifer evil, because he isnt, he's just very very dumb.

The complex intricacies of the potential cosmic soap opera that may be going on at that most high level, is extremely difficult for us to even slightly grasp. Indeed, the devil may be something along the lines of a prosecuting attorney, with the ultimate purpose being to test our worthiness/faith/strength.

But I suspect it's all a larger, more deep concept than humanity as a whole is prepared to readily understand. Thus, we have the story, as it's now presented.

 

[El_Machinae]

Hmmm youd have to be pretty stupid to rebel against God.

Maybe he knew something we don't know? Maybe God (once you get to know him) isn't all that likable? Not all that lovable?

It seems that the whole Bible is full of stories of people who knew God much better than I do, and they cannot stand Him either. Lucifer, Adam, Judas, etc.

 

[GenMarshall]

Maybe he knew something we don't know?

Maybe he was evil to begin with.

 

[El_Machinae]

It seems God is not such a great salesman

God: "Attend me, and love me. I am wholly Love and I contain the game-winning plan! If you obey me, you will meet nothing but prosperity and gladness!"

Person who has personally known God for a period of time: "Upon consideration, it seems that not obeying you is the best option".

Heck, I can be convinced that democracy, capitalism, gravity, and mathematics are all viable concepts that are game-winning models! You'd think that God would be at least as convincing as Economic Theory!

 

[thetrooper]

Satan is just a good metaphor to me.

 

[Smidlee]

Satan is a Hebrew name that 1st appears in the Torah/Old Testament. He was not part of Greek pagan mythology.

Agree but I believe Hollywood version does mixed Satan with the god of the underworld, Hades.

Hades was the ruler of the underworld in Greek mythology. Christianity adopted this pagan tradition in creating hell & associating Satan with Hades. Many pagan traditions have been adopted by Christanity.

Yet Satan doesn't have any association with Hades (the grave), hell. He doesn't even have the keys according to scripture. Notice Satan didn't offer Jesus those in hades (hell,grave) which he had no claim but offered the kingdoms of the world. Satan associating with Hades comes from Hollywood. So it's more like Hollywood borrowed from pagans than Christianity.

 

[Elrohir]

Satan is a very powerful spiritual being who does not want humans to be saved by Christ. He is not equal in power to God, but is allowed some freedom in order to test humans. He used to serve God in some function, but rebelled over something, I don't think it's ever explicitly stated in the Bible over what.

 

[Maimonides]

I am Jewish and thus I believe that Satan does not exist. For my view on evil, read my sig.

Israelite9191, read the Book of Job. Satan is certainly a part of Jewish tradition, though much different from the Christian view of him.

I have read it, in the original Hebrew and 5 English translations, and taught it at a Sunday yeshiva where I volunteer as a 6th grade teacher. Satan exists in the Jewish tradition as a minor angel who is something of a trickster figure equatable, though on a much lesser scale, to Loki of Norse mythology. The Satan of popular conception is purely a Christian invention based in large part on the Greco-Roman theology that combined Zoroastrian and Mithrian dualism with Greek hierarchical thinking, as well as the Jewish concept of the omniscient G-d, which in itself was significantly influenced by the Greek perception of Zeus. In Judaism Satan as he is reffered to here does not exist.

Ahhh. So, when you said Satan doesn't exist, you meant the Christian view of him. Gotcha.

Exactly my preference, which is why I didn't vote.

I could't vote, either. The poll omits the Jewish tradition.

Maimonides if you continue to ask many simplistic questions i will ignore them. Try to be more observant.

I don't really want to ask long, detailed questions on an internet forum, especially when it's not necessary.

What does being observant have to do with it?

Oops. That was a simplistic question. I guess it's being ignored.

Superior doesn’t mean wiser but it may mean stronger or more powerful. There is no oxymoron.

I see. So why do you view physical strength as superior to wisdom?

I may be selective because I want to.

Then my next question is, why would you want to?

What you are doing is no different from reading the 1st sentence of Moby Dick, "Call me Ishmael," & drawing a conclusion about the story.

First of all, yes it's true that both Jews and Muslims agree that Ishmael was the father of the Arabs, the same way that Isaac would father the Hebrews.

Gotcha. I asked because I had only heard that from non-Muslim sources.

Now, regarding the Torah/Old Testament account of which son was sacrificed (again, the Torah claims it was Isaac, while the Qur'an claims it was Ishmael), there is a fairly easy way to explain the logic of the Muslim view...

I didn't mean to get that far off topic.

I'm also not trying to start a Koran vs. Torah debate. I respect other religious views & have no interest in trying to convince others, one way or the other, about the validity of their beliefs.

Round up 100 people randomly on the street, give them crayons and paper and tell them to draw the Devil, and probably well over 90% will draw a human with horns, cloven hooves and a tail. This 'Devil', which is depicted as being very animal-like, is also the symbol for everything we think of as 'evil'. What do you suppose the significance of that is?

I'm not sure. Are you saying that animals are evil in Christian doctrine?

Israelite9191 are you a Messianic believer? (off topic)

A Messianic Jew, as in Christian Judaism? Definately not. Also, I am not a member of Lubavitch or any of the Hassidic "Meshiach is eminent" groups. I am a Conservative Branch Jew with very liberal social views. I did, however, graduate from an Orthodox Yeshiva three (IIRC) years ahead of schedule and at the top of the class.

I was also wondering what "Jesuit Jew" meant. I saw your explaination in another thread so you don't have to reply.

My understanding of Satan?

He's a man of wealth and taste
He's been around for a long, long year
Stole many a mans soul and faith
He was round when jesus christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate
He stuck around st. petersburg
saw it was a time for a change
Killed the czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain
He rode a tank
Held a generals rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank
He watched with glee
While kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made
He shouted out,
Who killed the kennedys?
When after all
It was you and me (or that one guy at least)
He's laid traps for troubadours
Who got killed before they reached bombay
He's called lucifer
He's in need of some restraint
and his greatest trick was
convincing the world that
he exists!

Is that Stones song really about Satan? I always wondered who it was about. Now it makes allot more sense to me.

Agree but I believe Hollywood version does mixed Satan with the god of the underworld, Hades.

Yet Satan doesn't have any association with Hades (the grave), hell. He doesn't even have the keys according to scripture. Notice Satan didn't offer Jesus those in hades (hell,grave) which he had no claim but offered the kingdoms of the world. Satan associating with Hades comes from Hollywood. So it's more like Hollywood borrowed from pagans than Christianity.

You have much to learn, my young padwan. Ignorance like this terrifies me.

Christianity is centuries older than the film industry which dates to Edison's motion picture inventions. Christianity's view of Satan is likewise centuries older than the film industry.

For examples of other pagan traditions incorporated into Christianity, research the Christmas tree, the Easter bunny, mistletoe & the entire holiday of Halloween.

 

[JollyRoger]

My understanding is that Satan can be found in the Harry Potter books
http://www.hisvoicetoday.org/hpappeal.htm

But apparently not in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe

 

[boarder]

Im in the neither satan or god exist camp.

 

[Maimonides]

My understanding is that Satan can be found in the Harry Potter books
http://www.hisvoicetoday.org/hpappeal.htm

But apparently not in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe

I'm not going to touch the witchcraft subject, but as for The Lion, the Witch & the Wardrobe series:

Warning. Spoiler reveals the end of the series.

Spoiler :

The witch was a metaphor for Satan & the lion was a metaphor for Jesus. I loved that series & was totally pissed when I got to the last page & found out the whole story was about the Christian view of the struggle between Heaven & Hell.

 

[KinesongPayaso]

he's a scapegoat for other people

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Maybe he knew something we don't know? Maybe God (once you get to know him) isn't all that likable? Not all that lovable?

It seems that the whole Bible is full of stories of people who knew God much better than I do, and they cannot stand Him either. Lucifer, Adam, Judas, etc.

Hey, youre right! Maybe God just rubs people the wrong way I wonder if theres a cosmic sized "How To Make Friends And Influence People".

I'm not sure. Are you saying that animals are evil in Christian doctrine?

Not quite, Im talking about humans in general, not just Christianity. Do people think of themselves as animals? No, most people see humans as being apart from Nature, our purpose being to control it, subjugate it. Even those who favor evolution see humanity as evolving away from its animal nature and towards something better. When we dont like a group of people, we call them animals.

Now, having said all of that, what is our symbol of 'evil'? A human with pronounced animal characteristics. Horns, hooves and a tail.

 

[Smidlee]

You have much to learn, my young padwan. Ignorance like this terrifies me.

Christianity is centuries older than the film industry which dates to Edison's motion picture inventions. Christianity's view of Satan is likewise centuries older than the film industry.

For examples of other pagan traditions incorporated into Christianity, research the Christmas tree, the Easter bunny, mistletoe & the entire holiday of Halloween.

First, I'm referring to Hollywood Satan as the topic. Also I admit I may be ignorant as I had no idea the Christmas tree, Easter bunny, mistletoe, especially Halloween had anything to do with Christianity. Please enlighten me, what's a bunny laying chicken eggs have to do with Christianity?

 

[Stacmon]

I could't vote, either. The poll omits the Jewish tradition.

Well, it wasn't my intention to omit any potential view point out of the poll. Fortunately, many of you have offered good explanations from why you believe something besides what is expressed by the poll options.

 

[Maimonides]

First, I'm referring to Hollywood Satan as the topic. Also I admit I may be ignorant as I had no idea the Christmas tree, Easter bunny, mistletoe, especially Halloween had anything to do with Christianity. Please enlighten me, what's a bunny laying chicken eggs have to do with Christianity?

Absolutely nothing which is why it's odd to me that it is such a large part of the way Easter is celebrated by Christians. The rabbit was a pagan symbol of fertility & rebirth used during Spring festivals. Christianity incorporated it into Easter.

The situation is similar with those other examples including the Christian view of Satan & Hell. You said that the Christian view of Satan was invented by Hollywood. That is totally false.

Well, it wasn't my intention to omit any potential view point out of the poll. Fortunately, many of you have offered good explanations from why you believe something besides what is expressed by the poll options.

No sweat.

 

[Ayatollah So]

To the tune of "Imaginary lover":
Imaginary haters never leave you be
They always care
They always share your misdeed
Blame diversion guaranteed!

Well, that's a few of the lyrics, you guys come up with the rest.